Intern got a job offer for same salary than a long term team member [duplicate]How should I properly approach...

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Intern got a job offer for same salary than a long term team member [duplicate]


How should I properly approach my boss if I'm feeling underpaid?Can a newer hire with less skills be paid higher than meWhats the appropriate time to wait after one has been rewarded/gifted to ask for a raise?Is it rude to ask a coworker about their starting salaryIs it unethical for my employer to ask for free copies of my companies software?I got a higher-salary job offer, but I'd like to stayNegotiating salary as undergraduateTips for salary negotiationGot lower offer than initially negotiated. Should I refuse?Reasons for a company to offer a lower salary than the standard, without improving their benefits?Should I be earning a new job title or a raise for training an intern?Large Company asking for personal information prior to salary offer






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This question already has an answer here:




  • How should I properly approach my boss if I'm feeling underpaid?

    8 answers




I work as a software dev at a small marketing company in the Netherlands. I have been working here for 5 years and really enjoy my job. We are going to hire a new software dev, an old intern that has been working here next to the school for the last 2 years. I will manage his projects and review his work.



This intern is also a friend of mine outside of work. When we were at a party together he was excited about the full-time job offer. And while we talked about it he mentioned what his pay was going to be. Which is exactly the same as mine.



This was some weeks ago. But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part-time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full-time experience.



While my manager did mention he put in a high offer for the intern to stay, because he does do a very good job, he did not call an actual amount. So I don't think I should know that the salary is the same.



Is there any way I could take this up with my manager? Can I mention anything about the interns pay?



Another issue is that about 4 months ago I got a significant raise (about 20%). But only after showing certain skills and achieving certain goals. But the new colleague is offered the same amount directly. So that makes me feel underappreciated for my achievements. Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people.










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marked as duplicate by gnat, Philipp, IDrinkandIKnowThings, BSMP, yoozer8 9 hours ago


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.



















  • @gnat the question you linked is sort of similar. But there is now answer on how to handle the fact that I know the interns pay.

    – ShingalaDash
    19 hours ago











  • I would have answered, but given that my last answer on the same premise is not liked by the community, I'd refrain. :)

    – Sourav Ghosh
    19 hours ago






  • 1





    @gnasher729 I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. Just having a hard time to make clear who I'm talking about without giving names.

    – ShingalaDash
    19 hours ago






  • 1





    @Fattie They're not an intern anymore. They're a full-time permanent employee that used to be an intern.

    – Carl Kevinson
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    Could you provide some additional information about the types of raises you have received? You mentioned 20% four months ago - is that the only raise in the five years, or have you received multiple raises, the most recent of which was 20%?

    – Rob P.
    12 hours ago


















27
















This question already has an answer here:




  • How should I properly approach my boss if I'm feeling underpaid?

    8 answers




I work as a software dev at a small marketing company in the Netherlands. I have been working here for 5 years and really enjoy my job. We are going to hire a new software dev, an old intern that has been working here next to the school for the last 2 years. I will manage his projects and review his work.



This intern is also a friend of mine outside of work. When we were at a party together he was excited about the full-time job offer. And while we talked about it he mentioned what his pay was going to be. Which is exactly the same as mine.



This was some weeks ago. But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part-time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full-time experience.



While my manager did mention he put in a high offer for the intern to stay, because he does do a very good job, he did not call an actual amount. So I don't think I should know that the salary is the same.



Is there any way I could take this up with my manager? Can I mention anything about the interns pay?



Another issue is that about 4 months ago I got a significant raise (about 20%). But only after showing certain skills and achieving certain goals. But the new colleague is offered the same amount directly. So that makes me feel underappreciated for my achievements. Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people.










share|improve this question















marked as duplicate by gnat, Philipp, IDrinkandIKnowThings, BSMP, yoozer8 9 hours ago


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.



















  • @gnat the question you linked is sort of similar. But there is now answer on how to handle the fact that I know the interns pay.

    – ShingalaDash
    19 hours ago











  • I would have answered, but given that my last answer on the same premise is not liked by the community, I'd refrain. :)

    – Sourav Ghosh
    19 hours ago






  • 1





    @gnasher729 I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. Just having a hard time to make clear who I'm talking about without giving names.

    – ShingalaDash
    19 hours ago






  • 1





    @Fattie They're not an intern anymore. They're a full-time permanent employee that used to be an intern.

    – Carl Kevinson
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    Could you provide some additional information about the types of raises you have received? You mentioned 20% four months ago - is that the only raise in the five years, or have you received multiple raises, the most recent of which was 20%?

    – Rob P.
    12 hours ago














27












27








27


3







This question already has an answer here:




  • How should I properly approach my boss if I'm feeling underpaid?

    8 answers




I work as a software dev at a small marketing company in the Netherlands. I have been working here for 5 years and really enjoy my job. We are going to hire a new software dev, an old intern that has been working here next to the school for the last 2 years. I will manage his projects and review his work.



This intern is also a friend of mine outside of work. When we were at a party together he was excited about the full-time job offer. And while we talked about it he mentioned what his pay was going to be. Which is exactly the same as mine.



This was some weeks ago. But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part-time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full-time experience.



While my manager did mention he put in a high offer for the intern to stay, because he does do a very good job, he did not call an actual amount. So I don't think I should know that the salary is the same.



Is there any way I could take this up with my manager? Can I mention anything about the interns pay?



Another issue is that about 4 months ago I got a significant raise (about 20%). But only after showing certain skills and achieving certain goals. But the new colleague is offered the same amount directly. So that makes me feel underappreciated for my achievements. Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people.










share|improve this question

















This question already has an answer here:




  • How should I properly approach my boss if I'm feeling underpaid?

    8 answers




I work as a software dev at a small marketing company in the Netherlands. I have been working here for 5 years and really enjoy my job. We are going to hire a new software dev, an old intern that has been working here next to the school for the last 2 years. I will manage his projects and review his work.



This intern is also a friend of mine outside of work. When we were at a party together he was excited about the full-time job offer. And while we talked about it he mentioned what his pay was going to be. Which is exactly the same as mine.



This was some weeks ago. But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part-time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full-time experience.



While my manager did mention he put in a high offer for the intern to stay, because he does do a very good job, he did not call an actual amount. So I don't think I should know that the salary is the same.



Is there any way I could take this up with my manager? Can I mention anything about the interns pay?



Another issue is that about 4 months ago I got a significant raise (about 20%). But only after showing certain skills and achieving certain goals. But the new colleague is offered the same amount directly. So that makes me feel underappreciated for my achievements. Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people.





This question already has an answer here:




  • How should I properly approach my boss if I'm feeling underpaid?

    8 answers








salary ethics raise






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edited 13 hours ago









Player One

1,8261814




1,8261814










asked 20 hours ago









ShingalaDashShingalaDash

15727




15727




marked as duplicate by gnat, Philipp, IDrinkandIKnowThings, BSMP, yoozer8 9 hours ago


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.









marked as duplicate by gnat, Philipp, IDrinkandIKnowThings, BSMP, yoozer8 9 hours ago


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.















  • @gnat the question you linked is sort of similar. But there is now answer on how to handle the fact that I know the interns pay.

    – ShingalaDash
    19 hours ago











  • I would have answered, but given that my last answer on the same premise is not liked by the community, I'd refrain. :)

    – Sourav Ghosh
    19 hours ago






  • 1





    @gnasher729 I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. Just having a hard time to make clear who I'm talking about without giving names.

    – ShingalaDash
    19 hours ago






  • 1





    @Fattie They're not an intern anymore. They're a full-time permanent employee that used to be an intern.

    – Carl Kevinson
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    Could you provide some additional information about the types of raises you have received? You mentioned 20% four months ago - is that the only raise in the five years, or have you received multiple raises, the most recent of which was 20%?

    – Rob P.
    12 hours ago



















  • @gnat the question you linked is sort of similar. But there is now answer on how to handle the fact that I know the interns pay.

    – ShingalaDash
    19 hours ago











  • I would have answered, but given that my last answer on the same premise is not liked by the community, I'd refrain. :)

    – Sourav Ghosh
    19 hours ago






  • 1





    @gnasher729 I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. Just having a hard time to make clear who I'm talking about without giving names.

    – ShingalaDash
    19 hours ago






  • 1





    @Fattie They're not an intern anymore. They're a full-time permanent employee that used to be an intern.

    – Carl Kevinson
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    Could you provide some additional information about the types of raises you have received? You mentioned 20% four months ago - is that the only raise in the five years, or have you received multiple raises, the most recent of which was 20%?

    – Rob P.
    12 hours ago

















@gnat the question you linked is sort of similar. But there is now answer on how to handle the fact that I know the interns pay.

– ShingalaDash
19 hours ago





@gnat the question you linked is sort of similar. But there is now answer on how to handle the fact that I know the interns pay.

– ShingalaDash
19 hours ago













I would have answered, but given that my last answer on the same premise is not liked by the community, I'd refrain. :)

– Sourav Ghosh
19 hours ago





I would have answered, but given that my last answer on the same premise is not liked by the community, I'd refrain. :)

– Sourav Ghosh
19 hours ago




1




1





@gnasher729 I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. Just having a hard time to make clear who I'm talking about without giving names.

– ShingalaDash
19 hours ago





@gnasher729 I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. Just having a hard time to make clear who I'm talking about without giving names.

– ShingalaDash
19 hours ago




1




1





@Fattie They're not an intern anymore. They're a full-time permanent employee that used to be an intern.

– Carl Kevinson
12 hours ago





@Fattie They're not an intern anymore. They're a full-time permanent employee that used to be an intern.

– Carl Kevinson
12 hours ago




1




1





Could you provide some additional information about the types of raises you have received? You mentioned 20% four months ago - is that the only raise in the five years, or have you received multiple raises, the most recent of which was 20%?

– Rob P.
12 hours ago





Could you provide some additional information about the types of raises you have received? You mentioned 20% four months ago - is that the only raise in the five years, or have you received multiple raises, the most recent of which was 20%?

– Rob P.
12 hours ago










6 Answers
6






active

oldest

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51














Since you say you don't want more salary yourself I'll start by addressing the question at the end of your post.




Can I mention anything about the interns pay?




Treat your knowledge of your colleague's salary the same way you would treat any other confidential knowledge: don't disclose it and don't discuss that you know it. That information belongs to your colleague. It's not yours to share.




But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full time experience.




It sounds like you feel that your five years of experience should be worth more than your new colleague's two years (which in my opinion is fair enough).



I'd suggest you challenge your thinking around this: instead of thinking they should earn less because you're satisfied with what you earn, start thinking that you deserve more: you're worth more than you were 5 years ago. You can manage projects and review other people's work now. There are other questions on the site about how to approach a situation where you feel underpaid.






share|improve this answer





















  • 31





    Please note that salary is personal and not confidential information. I could share my salary with whoever I want and it's illegal for the company to punish me for doing so.

    – Adrian Sicaru
    15 hours ago






  • 4





    This is precisely correct. OP, you must - must - drastically increase your salary in the immediate term.

    – Fattie
    15 hours ago






  • 5





    The thing with asking for a raise is that I just received a significant (20%) raise 4 months ago. Which felt like a lot of appreciation. But a new employee gets it when they start. Effectively canceling out the feeling of appreciation.

    – ShingalaDash
    14 hours ago






  • 7





    @PatrickNijhuis that sounds really frustrating. Have you investigated the salaries for someone with your level of experience in the area you live?

    – Player One
    14 hours ago






  • 8





    @PatrickNijhuis Consider sending CV and going to interviews. Not necessarily to get a new job, but to see what is your actual worth on the job market. And who knows, maybe you'll get an amazing offer you will want to take?

    – Mołot
    14 hours ago



















19














Salary levels for new hires increase with time, while your existing salary does not, until you get a raise - but that is completely unrelated to the intern's salary offer. If you received an offer of 3000 five years ago, you might receive 3500 with the same CV and experience today.



It doesn't make sense, but that's how it is in reality. Which is why many people change jobs fairly regularly nowadays. It is purely to keep your own salary at market level. Even with regular average raises, you would likely fall behind market levels.






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  • 10





    Which is why it pays to regularly "test the market", polish up your cv and talk to a recruiter. Every 6-12 months. If nothing else to ensure you're getting what the market pays. If you're far below... get another job offer. Then at least you have a second offer or a bargaining chip to get another raise at present employer. Good luck OP!

    – vikingsteve
    15 hours ago






  • 1





    @vikingsteve this - so much this, especially in software. I spent 4 years at the first place I worked, my salary went up by about 8%. Over the next 5 years I changed jobs three times, and I'm now paid twice what I had been making.

    – David Rice
    9 hours ago











  • Not to boast, but I got a 30% payrise by changing jobs last year. This was after "fighting" for 2.5% payrise the year before. Even though they can be annoying, it's worth to talk to a recruiter every now and again.

    – vikingsteve
    6 hours ago





















10














This is normal. New hires wouldn't work if it wasn't. You're not paid based on experience. You're paid based on how much you'll stay at work for. If you want to earn more money, you'll have to job hop. That's pretty standard too.



Should you mention the interns salary? Yes. 100% bring it up. Glass door exists so it's not like you don't know how much people in your company are being paid. If your boss, or whoever is in charge of your salary, thinks that you won't leave or, if they think they can easily replace you, or if there isn't money they won't give you a raise. That's how salary works.



So here's what you do about it. You clearly communicate that it's going to take more money to get you to stay. What this does is let who ever is in charge of your salary know that you aren't complacent.



Whoever the person who is in charge of your salary is, your salaryman, will have essentially 3 decisions to make. The first decision is weather or not to believe you. Statistically speaking, in most fields you won't leave. It's likely that you're just putting up a front for more money. So this leads to two places. The first is just not to believe you and play chicken with your salary. If your salaryman is right, you'll stay put, keep making noise, eventually fizzle out, and choose to work for what is essentially your current price.



Your salaryman can also choose to believe you. This leads to the other two decisions. The first one of these decisions, the second decision overall, is weather you're worth more money. The fact is that if you didn't make your company more money than you cost, you wouldn't be hired. That's fairly difficult to actually measure, so most of the time that point just boils down to your company thinking you make them more than you cost. This guessing game is essentially why reputation matters. If companies think you make them a mountain's weight in money, they'll pay you a maybe 40 metric tons of cash. If the your salaryman doesn't think you're worth the extra money, then he'll play chicken with your salary again. Similarly, if the salaryman thinks he can replace you easily when you quit, he won't care if you walk. In this situation, the only way for you to get a raise is charity; you're probably not getting a raise.



If your salaryman does think you're worth the money, then there's one more decision to make. Can the company afford to pay this employee more? Sometimes the answer is no and the salaryman has no choice but to play chicken with your salary and just hope you won't move on. Often it's yes. This is one of the points at which you get a raise.



The other way you get a raise is by winning the game of chicken; convince your company you're going to leave in such a way that they believe you and are motivated to make sure you stay, without actually leaving.



Kind of a rip off if you ask me.






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  • The first part of this answer is incongruous with the second. You are correct that you're paid whatever you'll stay at work for, but that has nothing to do with what other people will stay at work for. The intern's salary might be a signal that the OP is being underpaid, but it's not a compelling reason for management to give the OP a raise.

    – Nuclear Wang
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    @NuclearWang I'll edit and add more detail. The short of it is, that if OP wants more money, then OP will have to effectively communicate that their current salary is not enough for them to stay at their current company.

    – Steve
    10 hours ago











  • @NuclearWang I added those edits. Hopefully this sheds some light on the matter

    – Steve
    6 hours ago



















2














Employers want employees with skills. Experience is a proxy for skills, not a something that's valuable in and of itself. Apparently, your employer is satisfied that the new hire has the skills to provide the same value that you do, and has had the opportunity to directly evaluate his skills, rather than use proxies such as experience. It's up to your employer, not you, to decide how much value each employee is bringing. If you're both in similar roles providing similar work, they may see little reason to pay you more simply because you have more experience, just as they may see little reason to pay someone more simply because they have a master's and the other employees only have a bachelor's.






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  • It does sound like the OP is going to be in a senior position over the former intern.

    – aherocalledFrog
    9 hours ago



















2














I agree with most of the answers here, since they all could be correct - depending on the exact context. A slightly different perspective to consider is that this new hire may be atypical and that you can't directly compare your salaries.





  1. The first thing that came to mind when I read 5 years versus 2 years experience was something I read 20 years ago under the section Characteristics That Don't Matter As Much As You Might Think in Code Complete by Steve McConnell which struck me then and has stuck with me all this time:




    The bottom line on experience is this: if you work for 10 years, do
    you get 10 years of experience or do you get 1 year of experience 10
    times?




  2. You also state that you feel your achievements are underappreciated despite a recent raise "Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people." Was it freely given? Or does this new hire already possess significant skills and thus has earned the reward? Keep in mind that some skills are valued more highly than others.


  3. Finally, is the salary a typical new hire rate (for intern with this experience) or is this person exceptional and thus the starting salary is also an exception?



Just some other points to consider which may apply in this case, and would certainly apply in some other similar cases. Basically, this person may be an exceptional case and their salary may likewise be an exception. Professional athletes, movie stars, et cetera are not paid based on their years of experience. Likewise, software development isn't only about experience.



As others have suggested, a bit of market research - including checking out some other opportunities - may help you find out.



Edit: I note that while typing this, @Accumulation has also addressed this general theme.






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New contributor




Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • hi and welcome to the Workplace. Could you articulate your point? Right now it looks more like several rhetorical questions, but OP might have trouble reading through them

    – aaaaaa
    9 hours ago



















-4














Just say them you've got an offer twice your current salary. Eve if they raised yours recently, this makes you feel like you are seriously underpaid. They know they can pay it to you and they won't want to lose you over that. You'll get it.



UPD: The reasoning behind this advice is that if they are so eager to hire and overpay new employee without any actual experience on the job, with months ahead to fill, with no actual achievements, they have to be crazy to not try to at least bargain. What they doing with OP is a very regular thing actually. They negging him because he falls for it and allows them to pay less - so they do save a lot of money, while actually having the resources to give him a decent pay.



For them it's not even about money, they just feel they will look weak if they give you a raise without a reason. So they making shit up, like you have to show and achieve, to milk you for the value. Some stuff they learn at the management classes. To them, we are units, you can rarely expect humane treatment until you yourself understand that you deserve it.



Some people say you can get fired over this bluff. I give it zero chance, but think of this. You are already unhappy. You are already being treated unfairly, and every day you work there you will feel it, think about it, until you either restore the balance or quit. Learning truth is often unsettling and has consequences. Decide how you want to handle the situation because otherwise it's you who being handled.



Even if you lose your job (which can only happen either if you quit or allow your temper to get the better of you), you can always find a better one, where you will be at better position with all the experience behind your back, and can actually get better offer.



If you are strongly against the bluff, just get an offer for real. Update your LinkedIn and go to the couple of the interviews. See what options you have for the worst case scenario. I'm sure you'll be surprised.






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Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • 4





    This is a risky tactic if they call your bluff.

    – GrandMasterFlush
    13 hours ago






  • 2





    hi Ashton and welcome to Workplace. In general, this community advise not to lie intentionally. Also "they won't want to lose you over that" is an assumption. Could you expand your answer to help OP hedge their bet? basically, give advice how no to get fired if they follow your suggestion

    – aaaaaa
    11 hours ago











  • Terrible advice. The company is very likely to say 'great, enjoy your new job'.

    – 17 of 26
    11 hours ago











  • If company easily says that to the lead they are going down pretty soon anyway.

    – Ashton Catchem
    8 hours ago


















6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes








6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









51














Since you say you don't want more salary yourself I'll start by addressing the question at the end of your post.




Can I mention anything about the interns pay?




Treat your knowledge of your colleague's salary the same way you would treat any other confidential knowledge: don't disclose it and don't discuss that you know it. That information belongs to your colleague. It's not yours to share.




But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full time experience.




It sounds like you feel that your five years of experience should be worth more than your new colleague's two years (which in my opinion is fair enough).



I'd suggest you challenge your thinking around this: instead of thinking they should earn less because you're satisfied with what you earn, start thinking that you deserve more: you're worth more than you were 5 years ago. You can manage projects and review other people's work now. There are other questions on the site about how to approach a situation where you feel underpaid.






share|improve this answer





















  • 31





    Please note that salary is personal and not confidential information. I could share my salary with whoever I want and it's illegal for the company to punish me for doing so.

    – Adrian Sicaru
    15 hours ago






  • 4





    This is precisely correct. OP, you must - must - drastically increase your salary in the immediate term.

    – Fattie
    15 hours ago






  • 5





    The thing with asking for a raise is that I just received a significant (20%) raise 4 months ago. Which felt like a lot of appreciation. But a new employee gets it when they start. Effectively canceling out the feeling of appreciation.

    – ShingalaDash
    14 hours ago






  • 7





    @PatrickNijhuis that sounds really frustrating. Have you investigated the salaries for someone with your level of experience in the area you live?

    – Player One
    14 hours ago






  • 8





    @PatrickNijhuis Consider sending CV and going to interviews. Not necessarily to get a new job, but to see what is your actual worth on the job market. And who knows, maybe you'll get an amazing offer you will want to take?

    – Mołot
    14 hours ago
















51














Since you say you don't want more salary yourself I'll start by addressing the question at the end of your post.




Can I mention anything about the interns pay?




Treat your knowledge of your colleague's salary the same way you would treat any other confidential knowledge: don't disclose it and don't discuss that you know it. That information belongs to your colleague. It's not yours to share.




But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full time experience.




It sounds like you feel that your five years of experience should be worth more than your new colleague's two years (which in my opinion is fair enough).



I'd suggest you challenge your thinking around this: instead of thinking they should earn less because you're satisfied with what you earn, start thinking that you deserve more: you're worth more than you were 5 years ago. You can manage projects and review other people's work now. There are other questions on the site about how to approach a situation where you feel underpaid.






share|improve this answer





















  • 31





    Please note that salary is personal and not confidential information. I could share my salary with whoever I want and it's illegal for the company to punish me for doing so.

    – Adrian Sicaru
    15 hours ago






  • 4





    This is precisely correct. OP, you must - must - drastically increase your salary in the immediate term.

    – Fattie
    15 hours ago






  • 5





    The thing with asking for a raise is that I just received a significant (20%) raise 4 months ago. Which felt like a lot of appreciation. But a new employee gets it when they start. Effectively canceling out the feeling of appreciation.

    – ShingalaDash
    14 hours ago






  • 7





    @PatrickNijhuis that sounds really frustrating. Have you investigated the salaries for someone with your level of experience in the area you live?

    – Player One
    14 hours ago






  • 8





    @PatrickNijhuis Consider sending CV and going to interviews. Not necessarily to get a new job, but to see what is your actual worth on the job market. And who knows, maybe you'll get an amazing offer you will want to take?

    – Mołot
    14 hours ago














51












51








51







Since you say you don't want more salary yourself I'll start by addressing the question at the end of your post.




Can I mention anything about the interns pay?




Treat your knowledge of your colleague's salary the same way you would treat any other confidential knowledge: don't disclose it and don't discuss that you know it. That information belongs to your colleague. It's not yours to share.




But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full time experience.




It sounds like you feel that your five years of experience should be worth more than your new colleague's two years (which in my opinion is fair enough).



I'd suggest you challenge your thinking around this: instead of thinking they should earn less because you're satisfied with what you earn, start thinking that you deserve more: you're worth more than you were 5 years ago. You can manage projects and review other people's work now. There are other questions on the site about how to approach a situation where you feel underpaid.






share|improve this answer















Since you say you don't want more salary yourself I'll start by addressing the question at the end of your post.




Can I mention anything about the interns pay?




Treat your knowledge of your colleague's salary the same way you would treat any other confidential knowledge: don't disclose it and don't discuss that you know it. That information belongs to your colleague. It's not yours to share.




But it is bothering me a bit. Not that I want more salary per se. But that the interns 2 years of part time experience are apparently worth the same as my 5 years of full time experience.




It sounds like you feel that your five years of experience should be worth more than your new colleague's two years (which in my opinion is fair enough).



I'd suggest you challenge your thinking around this: instead of thinking they should earn less because you're satisfied with what you earn, start thinking that you deserve more: you're worth more than you were 5 years ago. You can manage projects and review other people's work now. There are other questions on the site about how to approach a situation where you feel underpaid.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 13 hours ago

























answered 19 hours ago









Player OnePlayer One

1,8261814




1,8261814








  • 31





    Please note that salary is personal and not confidential information. I could share my salary with whoever I want and it's illegal for the company to punish me for doing so.

    – Adrian Sicaru
    15 hours ago






  • 4





    This is precisely correct. OP, you must - must - drastically increase your salary in the immediate term.

    – Fattie
    15 hours ago






  • 5





    The thing with asking for a raise is that I just received a significant (20%) raise 4 months ago. Which felt like a lot of appreciation. But a new employee gets it when they start. Effectively canceling out the feeling of appreciation.

    – ShingalaDash
    14 hours ago






  • 7





    @PatrickNijhuis that sounds really frustrating. Have you investigated the salaries for someone with your level of experience in the area you live?

    – Player One
    14 hours ago






  • 8





    @PatrickNijhuis Consider sending CV and going to interviews. Not necessarily to get a new job, but to see what is your actual worth on the job market. And who knows, maybe you'll get an amazing offer you will want to take?

    – Mołot
    14 hours ago














  • 31





    Please note that salary is personal and not confidential information. I could share my salary with whoever I want and it's illegal for the company to punish me for doing so.

    – Adrian Sicaru
    15 hours ago






  • 4





    This is precisely correct. OP, you must - must - drastically increase your salary in the immediate term.

    – Fattie
    15 hours ago






  • 5





    The thing with asking for a raise is that I just received a significant (20%) raise 4 months ago. Which felt like a lot of appreciation. But a new employee gets it when they start. Effectively canceling out the feeling of appreciation.

    – ShingalaDash
    14 hours ago






  • 7





    @PatrickNijhuis that sounds really frustrating. Have you investigated the salaries for someone with your level of experience in the area you live?

    – Player One
    14 hours ago






  • 8





    @PatrickNijhuis Consider sending CV and going to interviews. Not necessarily to get a new job, but to see what is your actual worth on the job market. And who knows, maybe you'll get an amazing offer you will want to take?

    – Mołot
    14 hours ago








31




31





Please note that salary is personal and not confidential information. I could share my salary with whoever I want and it's illegal for the company to punish me for doing so.

– Adrian Sicaru
15 hours ago





Please note that salary is personal and not confidential information. I could share my salary with whoever I want and it's illegal for the company to punish me for doing so.

– Adrian Sicaru
15 hours ago




4




4





This is precisely correct. OP, you must - must - drastically increase your salary in the immediate term.

– Fattie
15 hours ago





This is precisely correct. OP, you must - must - drastically increase your salary in the immediate term.

– Fattie
15 hours ago




5




5





The thing with asking for a raise is that I just received a significant (20%) raise 4 months ago. Which felt like a lot of appreciation. But a new employee gets it when they start. Effectively canceling out the feeling of appreciation.

– ShingalaDash
14 hours ago





The thing with asking for a raise is that I just received a significant (20%) raise 4 months ago. Which felt like a lot of appreciation. But a new employee gets it when they start. Effectively canceling out the feeling of appreciation.

– ShingalaDash
14 hours ago




7




7





@PatrickNijhuis that sounds really frustrating. Have you investigated the salaries for someone with your level of experience in the area you live?

– Player One
14 hours ago





@PatrickNijhuis that sounds really frustrating. Have you investigated the salaries for someone with your level of experience in the area you live?

– Player One
14 hours ago




8




8





@PatrickNijhuis Consider sending CV and going to interviews. Not necessarily to get a new job, but to see what is your actual worth on the job market. And who knows, maybe you'll get an amazing offer you will want to take?

– Mołot
14 hours ago





@PatrickNijhuis Consider sending CV and going to interviews. Not necessarily to get a new job, but to see what is your actual worth on the job market. And who knows, maybe you'll get an amazing offer you will want to take?

– Mołot
14 hours ago













19














Salary levels for new hires increase with time, while your existing salary does not, until you get a raise - but that is completely unrelated to the intern's salary offer. If you received an offer of 3000 five years ago, you might receive 3500 with the same CV and experience today.



It doesn't make sense, but that's how it is in reality. Which is why many people change jobs fairly regularly nowadays. It is purely to keep your own salary at market level. Even with regular average raises, you would likely fall behind market levels.






share|improve this answer



















  • 10





    Which is why it pays to regularly "test the market", polish up your cv and talk to a recruiter. Every 6-12 months. If nothing else to ensure you're getting what the market pays. If you're far below... get another job offer. Then at least you have a second offer or a bargaining chip to get another raise at present employer. Good luck OP!

    – vikingsteve
    15 hours ago






  • 1





    @vikingsteve this - so much this, especially in software. I spent 4 years at the first place I worked, my salary went up by about 8%. Over the next 5 years I changed jobs three times, and I'm now paid twice what I had been making.

    – David Rice
    9 hours ago











  • Not to boast, but I got a 30% payrise by changing jobs last year. This was after "fighting" for 2.5% payrise the year before. Even though they can be annoying, it's worth to talk to a recruiter every now and again.

    – vikingsteve
    6 hours ago


















19














Salary levels for new hires increase with time, while your existing salary does not, until you get a raise - but that is completely unrelated to the intern's salary offer. If you received an offer of 3000 five years ago, you might receive 3500 with the same CV and experience today.



It doesn't make sense, but that's how it is in reality. Which is why many people change jobs fairly regularly nowadays. It is purely to keep your own salary at market level. Even with regular average raises, you would likely fall behind market levels.






share|improve this answer



















  • 10





    Which is why it pays to regularly "test the market", polish up your cv and talk to a recruiter. Every 6-12 months. If nothing else to ensure you're getting what the market pays. If you're far below... get another job offer. Then at least you have a second offer or a bargaining chip to get another raise at present employer. Good luck OP!

    – vikingsteve
    15 hours ago






  • 1





    @vikingsteve this - so much this, especially in software. I spent 4 years at the first place I worked, my salary went up by about 8%. Over the next 5 years I changed jobs three times, and I'm now paid twice what I had been making.

    – David Rice
    9 hours ago











  • Not to boast, but I got a 30% payrise by changing jobs last year. This was after "fighting" for 2.5% payrise the year before. Even though they can be annoying, it's worth to talk to a recruiter every now and again.

    – vikingsteve
    6 hours ago
















19












19








19







Salary levels for new hires increase with time, while your existing salary does not, until you get a raise - but that is completely unrelated to the intern's salary offer. If you received an offer of 3000 five years ago, you might receive 3500 with the same CV and experience today.



It doesn't make sense, but that's how it is in reality. Which is why many people change jobs fairly regularly nowadays. It is purely to keep your own salary at market level. Even with regular average raises, you would likely fall behind market levels.






share|improve this answer













Salary levels for new hires increase with time, while your existing salary does not, until you get a raise - but that is completely unrelated to the intern's salary offer. If you received an offer of 3000 five years ago, you might receive 3500 with the same CV and experience today.



It doesn't make sense, but that's how it is in reality. Which is why many people change jobs fairly regularly nowadays. It is purely to keep your own salary at market level. Even with regular average raises, you would likely fall behind market levels.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 16 hours ago









Juha UntinenJuha Untinen

2,65611224




2,65611224








  • 10





    Which is why it pays to regularly "test the market", polish up your cv and talk to a recruiter. Every 6-12 months. If nothing else to ensure you're getting what the market pays. If you're far below... get another job offer. Then at least you have a second offer or a bargaining chip to get another raise at present employer. Good luck OP!

    – vikingsteve
    15 hours ago






  • 1





    @vikingsteve this - so much this, especially in software. I spent 4 years at the first place I worked, my salary went up by about 8%. Over the next 5 years I changed jobs three times, and I'm now paid twice what I had been making.

    – David Rice
    9 hours ago











  • Not to boast, but I got a 30% payrise by changing jobs last year. This was after "fighting" for 2.5% payrise the year before. Even though they can be annoying, it's worth to talk to a recruiter every now and again.

    – vikingsteve
    6 hours ago
















  • 10





    Which is why it pays to regularly "test the market", polish up your cv and talk to a recruiter. Every 6-12 months. If nothing else to ensure you're getting what the market pays. If you're far below... get another job offer. Then at least you have a second offer or a bargaining chip to get another raise at present employer. Good luck OP!

    – vikingsteve
    15 hours ago






  • 1





    @vikingsteve this - so much this, especially in software. I spent 4 years at the first place I worked, my salary went up by about 8%. Over the next 5 years I changed jobs three times, and I'm now paid twice what I had been making.

    – David Rice
    9 hours ago











  • Not to boast, but I got a 30% payrise by changing jobs last year. This was after "fighting" for 2.5% payrise the year before. Even though they can be annoying, it's worth to talk to a recruiter every now and again.

    – vikingsteve
    6 hours ago










10




10





Which is why it pays to regularly "test the market", polish up your cv and talk to a recruiter. Every 6-12 months. If nothing else to ensure you're getting what the market pays. If you're far below... get another job offer. Then at least you have a second offer or a bargaining chip to get another raise at present employer. Good luck OP!

– vikingsteve
15 hours ago





Which is why it pays to regularly "test the market", polish up your cv and talk to a recruiter. Every 6-12 months. If nothing else to ensure you're getting what the market pays. If you're far below... get another job offer. Then at least you have a second offer or a bargaining chip to get another raise at present employer. Good luck OP!

– vikingsteve
15 hours ago




1




1





@vikingsteve this - so much this, especially in software. I spent 4 years at the first place I worked, my salary went up by about 8%. Over the next 5 years I changed jobs three times, and I'm now paid twice what I had been making.

– David Rice
9 hours ago





@vikingsteve this - so much this, especially in software. I spent 4 years at the first place I worked, my salary went up by about 8%. Over the next 5 years I changed jobs three times, and I'm now paid twice what I had been making.

– David Rice
9 hours ago













Not to boast, but I got a 30% payrise by changing jobs last year. This was after "fighting" for 2.5% payrise the year before. Even though they can be annoying, it's worth to talk to a recruiter every now and again.

– vikingsteve
6 hours ago







Not to boast, but I got a 30% payrise by changing jobs last year. This was after "fighting" for 2.5% payrise the year before. Even though they can be annoying, it's worth to talk to a recruiter every now and again.

– vikingsteve
6 hours ago













10














This is normal. New hires wouldn't work if it wasn't. You're not paid based on experience. You're paid based on how much you'll stay at work for. If you want to earn more money, you'll have to job hop. That's pretty standard too.



Should you mention the interns salary? Yes. 100% bring it up. Glass door exists so it's not like you don't know how much people in your company are being paid. If your boss, or whoever is in charge of your salary, thinks that you won't leave or, if they think they can easily replace you, or if there isn't money they won't give you a raise. That's how salary works.



So here's what you do about it. You clearly communicate that it's going to take more money to get you to stay. What this does is let who ever is in charge of your salary know that you aren't complacent.



Whoever the person who is in charge of your salary is, your salaryman, will have essentially 3 decisions to make. The first decision is weather or not to believe you. Statistically speaking, in most fields you won't leave. It's likely that you're just putting up a front for more money. So this leads to two places. The first is just not to believe you and play chicken with your salary. If your salaryman is right, you'll stay put, keep making noise, eventually fizzle out, and choose to work for what is essentially your current price.



Your salaryman can also choose to believe you. This leads to the other two decisions. The first one of these decisions, the second decision overall, is weather you're worth more money. The fact is that if you didn't make your company more money than you cost, you wouldn't be hired. That's fairly difficult to actually measure, so most of the time that point just boils down to your company thinking you make them more than you cost. This guessing game is essentially why reputation matters. If companies think you make them a mountain's weight in money, they'll pay you a maybe 40 metric tons of cash. If the your salaryman doesn't think you're worth the extra money, then he'll play chicken with your salary again. Similarly, if the salaryman thinks he can replace you easily when you quit, he won't care if you walk. In this situation, the only way for you to get a raise is charity; you're probably not getting a raise.



If your salaryman does think you're worth the money, then there's one more decision to make. Can the company afford to pay this employee more? Sometimes the answer is no and the salaryman has no choice but to play chicken with your salary and just hope you won't move on. Often it's yes. This is one of the points at which you get a raise.



The other way you get a raise is by winning the game of chicken; convince your company you're going to leave in such a way that they believe you and are motivated to make sure you stay, without actually leaving.



Kind of a rip off if you ask me.






share|improve this answer


























  • The first part of this answer is incongruous with the second. You are correct that you're paid whatever you'll stay at work for, but that has nothing to do with what other people will stay at work for. The intern's salary might be a signal that the OP is being underpaid, but it's not a compelling reason for management to give the OP a raise.

    – Nuclear Wang
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    @NuclearWang I'll edit and add more detail. The short of it is, that if OP wants more money, then OP will have to effectively communicate that their current salary is not enough for them to stay at their current company.

    – Steve
    10 hours ago











  • @NuclearWang I added those edits. Hopefully this sheds some light on the matter

    – Steve
    6 hours ago
















10














This is normal. New hires wouldn't work if it wasn't. You're not paid based on experience. You're paid based on how much you'll stay at work for. If you want to earn more money, you'll have to job hop. That's pretty standard too.



Should you mention the interns salary? Yes. 100% bring it up. Glass door exists so it's not like you don't know how much people in your company are being paid. If your boss, or whoever is in charge of your salary, thinks that you won't leave or, if they think they can easily replace you, or if there isn't money they won't give you a raise. That's how salary works.



So here's what you do about it. You clearly communicate that it's going to take more money to get you to stay. What this does is let who ever is in charge of your salary know that you aren't complacent.



Whoever the person who is in charge of your salary is, your salaryman, will have essentially 3 decisions to make. The first decision is weather or not to believe you. Statistically speaking, in most fields you won't leave. It's likely that you're just putting up a front for more money. So this leads to two places. The first is just not to believe you and play chicken with your salary. If your salaryman is right, you'll stay put, keep making noise, eventually fizzle out, and choose to work for what is essentially your current price.



Your salaryman can also choose to believe you. This leads to the other two decisions. The first one of these decisions, the second decision overall, is weather you're worth more money. The fact is that if you didn't make your company more money than you cost, you wouldn't be hired. That's fairly difficult to actually measure, so most of the time that point just boils down to your company thinking you make them more than you cost. This guessing game is essentially why reputation matters. If companies think you make them a mountain's weight in money, they'll pay you a maybe 40 metric tons of cash. If the your salaryman doesn't think you're worth the extra money, then he'll play chicken with your salary again. Similarly, if the salaryman thinks he can replace you easily when you quit, he won't care if you walk. In this situation, the only way for you to get a raise is charity; you're probably not getting a raise.



If your salaryman does think you're worth the money, then there's one more decision to make. Can the company afford to pay this employee more? Sometimes the answer is no and the salaryman has no choice but to play chicken with your salary and just hope you won't move on. Often it's yes. This is one of the points at which you get a raise.



The other way you get a raise is by winning the game of chicken; convince your company you're going to leave in such a way that they believe you and are motivated to make sure you stay, without actually leaving.



Kind of a rip off if you ask me.






share|improve this answer


























  • The first part of this answer is incongruous with the second. You are correct that you're paid whatever you'll stay at work for, but that has nothing to do with what other people will stay at work for. The intern's salary might be a signal that the OP is being underpaid, but it's not a compelling reason for management to give the OP a raise.

    – Nuclear Wang
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    @NuclearWang I'll edit and add more detail. The short of it is, that if OP wants more money, then OP will have to effectively communicate that their current salary is not enough for them to stay at their current company.

    – Steve
    10 hours ago











  • @NuclearWang I added those edits. Hopefully this sheds some light on the matter

    – Steve
    6 hours ago














10












10








10







This is normal. New hires wouldn't work if it wasn't. You're not paid based on experience. You're paid based on how much you'll stay at work for. If you want to earn more money, you'll have to job hop. That's pretty standard too.



Should you mention the interns salary? Yes. 100% bring it up. Glass door exists so it's not like you don't know how much people in your company are being paid. If your boss, or whoever is in charge of your salary, thinks that you won't leave or, if they think they can easily replace you, or if there isn't money they won't give you a raise. That's how salary works.



So here's what you do about it. You clearly communicate that it's going to take more money to get you to stay. What this does is let who ever is in charge of your salary know that you aren't complacent.



Whoever the person who is in charge of your salary is, your salaryman, will have essentially 3 decisions to make. The first decision is weather or not to believe you. Statistically speaking, in most fields you won't leave. It's likely that you're just putting up a front for more money. So this leads to two places. The first is just not to believe you and play chicken with your salary. If your salaryman is right, you'll stay put, keep making noise, eventually fizzle out, and choose to work for what is essentially your current price.



Your salaryman can also choose to believe you. This leads to the other two decisions. The first one of these decisions, the second decision overall, is weather you're worth more money. The fact is that if you didn't make your company more money than you cost, you wouldn't be hired. That's fairly difficult to actually measure, so most of the time that point just boils down to your company thinking you make them more than you cost. This guessing game is essentially why reputation matters. If companies think you make them a mountain's weight in money, they'll pay you a maybe 40 metric tons of cash. If the your salaryman doesn't think you're worth the extra money, then he'll play chicken with your salary again. Similarly, if the salaryman thinks he can replace you easily when you quit, he won't care if you walk. In this situation, the only way for you to get a raise is charity; you're probably not getting a raise.



If your salaryman does think you're worth the money, then there's one more decision to make. Can the company afford to pay this employee more? Sometimes the answer is no and the salaryman has no choice but to play chicken with your salary and just hope you won't move on. Often it's yes. This is one of the points at which you get a raise.



The other way you get a raise is by winning the game of chicken; convince your company you're going to leave in such a way that they believe you and are motivated to make sure you stay, without actually leaving.



Kind of a rip off if you ask me.






share|improve this answer















This is normal. New hires wouldn't work if it wasn't. You're not paid based on experience. You're paid based on how much you'll stay at work for. If you want to earn more money, you'll have to job hop. That's pretty standard too.



Should you mention the interns salary? Yes. 100% bring it up. Glass door exists so it's not like you don't know how much people in your company are being paid. If your boss, or whoever is in charge of your salary, thinks that you won't leave or, if they think they can easily replace you, or if there isn't money they won't give you a raise. That's how salary works.



So here's what you do about it. You clearly communicate that it's going to take more money to get you to stay. What this does is let who ever is in charge of your salary know that you aren't complacent.



Whoever the person who is in charge of your salary is, your salaryman, will have essentially 3 decisions to make. The first decision is weather or not to believe you. Statistically speaking, in most fields you won't leave. It's likely that you're just putting up a front for more money. So this leads to two places. The first is just not to believe you and play chicken with your salary. If your salaryman is right, you'll stay put, keep making noise, eventually fizzle out, and choose to work for what is essentially your current price.



Your salaryman can also choose to believe you. This leads to the other two decisions. The first one of these decisions, the second decision overall, is weather you're worth more money. The fact is that if you didn't make your company more money than you cost, you wouldn't be hired. That's fairly difficult to actually measure, so most of the time that point just boils down to your company thinking you make them more than you cost. This guessing game is essentially why reputation matters. If companies think you make them a mountain's weight in money, they'll pay you a maybe 40 metric tons of cash. If the your salaryman doesn't think you're worth the extra money, then he'll play chicken with your salary again. Similarly, if the salaryman thinks he can replace you easily when you quit, he won't care if you walk. In this situation, the only way for you to get a raise is charity; you're probably not getting a raise.



If your salaryman does think you're worth the money, then there's one more decision to make. Can the company afford to pay this employee more? Sometimes the answer is no and the salaryman has no choice but to play chicken with your salary and just hope you won't move on. Often it's yes. This is one of the points at which you get a raise.



The other way you get a raise is by winning the game of chicken; convince your company you're going to leave in such a way that they believe you and are motivated to make sure you stay, without actually leaving.



Kind of a rip off if you ask me.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 6 hours ago

























answered 14 hours ago









SteveSteve

3,654723




3,654723













  • The first part of this answer is incongruous with the second. You are correct that you're paid whatever you'll stay at work for, but that has nothing to do with what other people will stay at work for. The intern's salary might be a signal that the OP is being underpaid, but it's not a compelling reason for management to give the OP a raise.

    – Nuclear Wang
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    @NuclearWang I'll edit and add more detail. The short of it is, that if OP wants more money, then OP will have to effectively communicate that their current salary is not enough for them to stay at their current company.

    – Steve
    10 hours ago











  • @NuclearWang I added those edits. Hopefully this sheds some light on the matter

    – Steve
    6 hours ago



















  • The first part of this answer is incongruous with the second. You are correct that you're paid whatever you'll stay at work for, but that has nothing to do with what other people will stay at work for. The intern's salary might be a signal that the OP is being underpaid, but it's not a compelling reason for management to give the OP a raise.

    – Nuclear Wang
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    @NuclearWang I'll edit and add more detail. The short of it is, that if OP wants more money, then OP will have to effectively communicate that their current salary is not enough for them to stay at their current company.

    – Steve
    10 hours ago











  • @NuclearWang I added those edits. Hopefully this sheds some light on the matter

    – Steve
    6 hours ago

















The first part of this answer is incongruous with the second. You are correct that you're paid whatever you'll stay at work for, but that has nothing to do with what other people will stay at work for. The intern's salary might be a signal that the OP is being underpaid, but it's not a compelling reason for management to give the OP a raise.

– Nuclear Wang
11 hours ago





The first part of this answer is incongruous with the second. You are correct that you're paid whatever you'll stay at work for, but that has nothing to do with what other people will stay at work for. The intern's salary might be a signal that the OP is being underpaid, but it's not a compelling reason for management to give the OP a raise.

– Nuclear Wang
11 hours ago




1




1





@NuclearWang I'll edit and add more detail. The short of it is, that if OP wants more money, then OP will have to effectively communicate that their current salary is not enough for them to stay at their current company.

– Steve
10 hours ago





@NuclearWang I'll edit and add more detail. The short of it is, that if OP wants more money, then OP will have to effectively communicate that their current salary is not enough for them to stay at their current company.

– Steve
10 hours ago













@NuclearWang I added those edits. Hopefully this sheds some light on the matter

– Steve
6 hours ago





@NuclearWang I added those edits. Hopefully this sheds some light on the matter

– Steve
6 hours ago











2














Employers want employees with skills. Experience is a proxy for skills, not a something that's valuable in and of itself. Apparently, your employer is satisfied that the new hire has the skills to provide the same value that you do, and has had the opportunity to directly evaluate his skills, rather than use proxies such as experience. It's up to your employer, not you, to decide how much value each employee is bringing. If you're both in similar roles providing similar work, they may see little reason to pay you more simply because you have more experience, just as they may see little reason to pay someone more simply because they have a master's and the other employees only have a bachelor's.






share|improve this answer
























  • It does sound like the OP is going to be in a senior position over the former intern.

    – aherocalledFrog
    9 hours ago
















2














Employers want employees with skills. Experience is a proxy for skills, not a something that's valuable in and of itself. Apparently, your employer is satisfied that the new hire has the skills to provide the same value that you do, and has had the opportunity to directly evaluate his skills, rather than use proxies such as experience. It's up to your employer, not you, to decide how much value each employee is bringing. If you're both in similar roles providing similar work, they may see little reason to pay you more simply because you have more experience, just as they may see little reason to pay someone more simply because they have a master's and the other employees only have a bachelor's.






share|improve this answer
























  • It does sound like the OP is going to be in a senior position over the former intern.

    – aherocalledFrog
    9 hours ago














2












2








2







Employers want employees with skills. Experience is a proxy for skills, not a something that's valuable in and of itself. Apparently, your employer is satisfied that the new hire has the skills to provide the same value that you do, and has had the opportunity to directly evaluate his skills, rather than use proxies such as experience. It's up to your employer, not you, to decide how much value each employee is bringing. If you're both in similar roles providing similar work, they may see little reason to pay you more simply because you have more experience, just as they may see little reason to pay someone more simply because they have a master's and the other employees only have a bachelor's.






share|improve this answer













Employers want employees with skills. Experience is a proxy for skills, not a something that's valuable in and of itself. Apparently, your employer is satisfied that the new hire has the skills to provide the same value that you do, and has had the opportunity to directly evaluate his skills, rather than use proxies such as experience. It's up to your employer, not you, to decide how much value each employee is bringing. If you're both in similar roles providing similar work, they may see little reason to pay you more simply because you have more experience, just as they may see little reason to pay someone more simply because they have a master's and the other employees only have a bachelor's.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 12 hours ago









AcccumulationAcccumulation

3,3751613




3,3751613













  • It does sound like the OP is going to be in a senior position over the former intern.

    – aherocalledFrog
    9 hours ago



















  • It does sound like the OP is going to be in a senior position over the former intern.

    – aherocalledFrog
    9 hours ago

















It does sound like the OP is going to be in a senior position over the former intern.

– aherocalledFrog
9 hours ago





It does sound like the OP is going to be in a senior position over the former intern.

– aherocalledFrog
9 hours ago











2














I agree with most of the answers here, since they all could be correct - depending on the exact context. A slightly different perspective to consider is that this new hire may be atypical and that you can't directly compare your salaries.





  1. The first thing that came to mind when I read 5 years versus 2 years experience was something I read 20 years ago under the section Characteristics That Don't Matter As Much As You Might Think in Code Complete by Steve McConnell which struck me then and has stuck with me all this time:




    The bottom line on experience is this: if you work for 10 years, do
    you get 10 years of experience or do you get 1 year of experience 10
    times?




  2. You also state that you feel your achievements are underappreciated despite a recent raise "Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people." Was it freely given? Or does this new hire already possess significant skills and thus has earned the reward? Keep in mind that some skills are valued more highly than others.


  3. Finally, is the salary a typical new hire rate (for intern with this experience) or is this person exceptional and thus the starting salary is also an exception?



Just some other points to consider which may apply in this case, and would certainly apply in some other similar cases. Basically, this person may be an exceptional case and their salary may likewise be an exception. Professional athletes, movie stars, et cetera are not paid based on their years of experience. Likewise, software development isn't only about experience.



As others have suggested, a bit of market research - including checking out some other opportunities - may help you find out.



Edit: I note that while typing this, @Accumulation has also addressed this general theme.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • hi and welcome to the Workplace. Could you articulate your point? Right now it looks more like several rhetorical questions, but OP might have trouble reading through them

    – aaaaaa
    9 hours ago
















2














I agree with most of the answers here, since they all could be correct - depending on the exact context. A slightly different perspective to consider is that this new hire may be atypical and that you can't directly compare your salaries.





  1. The first thing that came to mind when I read 5 years versus 2 years experience was something I read 20 years ago under the section Characteristics That Don't Matter As Much As You Might Think in Code Complete by Steve McConnell which struck me then and has stuck with me all this time:




    The bottom line on experience is this: if you work for 10 years, do
    you get 10 years of experience or do you get 1 year of experience 10
    times?




  2. You also state that you feel your achievements are underappreciated despite a recent raise "Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people." Was it freely given? Or does this new hire already possess significant skills and thus has earned the reward? Keep in mind that some skills are valued more highly than others.


  3. Finally, is the salary a typical new hire rate (for intern with this experience) or is this person exceptional and thus the starting salary is also an exception?



Just some other points to consider which may apply in this case, and would certainly apply in some other similar cases. Basically, this person may be an exceptional case and their salary may likewise be an exception. Professional athletes, movie stars, et cetera are not paid based on their years of experience. Likewise, software development isn't only about experience.



As others have suggested, a bit of market research - including checking out some other opportunities - may help you find out.



Edit: I note that while typing this, @Accumulation has also addressed this general theme.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • hi and welcome to the Workplace. Could you articulate your point? Right now it looks more like several rhetorical questions, but OP might have trouble reading through them

    – aaaaaa
    9 hours ago














2












2








2







I agree with most of the answers here, since they all could be correct - depending on the exact context. A slightly different perspective to consider is that this new hire may be atypical and that you can't directly compare your salaries.





  1. The first thing that came to mind when I read 5 years versus 2 years experience was something I read 20 years ago under the section Characteristics That Don't Matter As Much As You Might Think in Code Complete by Steve McConnell which struck me then and has stuck with me all this time:




    The bottom line on experience is this: if you work for 10 years, do
    you get 10 years of experience or do you get 1 year of experience 10
    times?




  2. You also state that you feel your achievements are underappreciated despite a recent raise "Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people." Was it freely given? Or does this new hire already possess significant skills and thus has earned the reward? Keep in mind that some skills are valued more highly than others.


  3. Finally, is the salary a typical new hire rate (for intern with this experience) or is this person exceptional and thus the starting salary is also an exception?



Just some other points to consider which may apply in this case, and would certainly apply in some other similar cases. Basically, this person may be an exceptional case and their salary may likewise be an exception. Professional athletes, movie stars, et cetera are not paid based on their years of experience. Likewise, software development isn't only about experience.



As others have suggested, a bit of market research - including checking out some other opportunities - may help you find out.



Edit: I note that while typing this, @Accumulation has also addressed this general theme.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










I agree with most of the answers here, since they all could be correct - depending on the exact context. A slightly different perspective to consider is that this new hire may be atypical and that you can't directly compare your salaries.





  1. The first thing that came to mind when I read 5 years versus 2 years experience was something I read 20 years ago under the section Characteristics That Don't Matter As Much As You Might Think in Code Complete by Steve McConnell which struck me then and has stuck with me all this time:




    The bottom line on experience is this: if you work for 10 years, do
    you get 10 years of experience or do you get 1 year of experience 10
    times?




  2. You also state that you feel your achievements are underappreciated despite a recent raise "Because the "reward" so to say is given freely to new people." Was it freely given? Or does this new hire already possess significant skills and thus has earned the reward? Keep in mind that some skills are valued more highly than others.


  3. Finally, is the salary a typical new hire rate (for intern with this experience) or is this person exceptional and thus the starting salary is also an exception?



Just some other points to consider which may apply in this case, and would certainly apply in some other similar cases. Basically, this person may be an exceptional case and their salary may likewise be an exception. Professional athletes, movie stars, et cetera are not paid based on their years of experience. Likewise, software development isn't only about experience.



As others have suggested, a bit of market research - including checking out some other opportunities - may help you find out.



Edit: I note that while typing this, @Accumulation has also addressed this general theme.







share|improve this answer








New contributor




Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer






New contributor




Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









answered 12 hours ago









Colin KColin K

212




212




New contributor




Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Colin K is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.













  • hi and welcome to the Workplace. Could you articulate your point? Right now it looks more like several rhetorical questions, but OP might have trouble reading through them

    – aaaaaa
    9 hours ago



















  • hi and welcome to the Workplace. Could you articulate your point? Right now it looks more like several rhetorical questions, but OP might have trouble reading through them

    – aaaaaa
    9 hours ago

















hi and welcome to the Workplace. Could you articulate your point? Right now it looks more like several rhetorical questions, but OP might have trouble reading through them

– aaaaaa
9 hours ago





hi and welcome to the Workplace. Could you articulate your point? Right now it looks more like several rhetorical questions, but OP might have trouble reading through them

– aaaaaa
9 hours ago











-4














Just say them you've got an offer twice your current salary. Eve if they raised yours recently, this makes you feel like you are seriously underpaid. They know they can pay it to you and they won't want to lose you over that. You'll get it.



UPD: The reasoning behind this advice is that if they are so eager to hire and overpay new employee without any actual experience on the job, with months ahead to fill, with no actual achievements, they have to be crazy to not try to at least bargain. What they doing with OP is a very regular thing actually. They negging him because he falls for it and allows them to pay less - so they do save a lot of money, while actually having the resources to give him a decent pay.



For them it's not even about money, they just feel they will look weak if they give you a raise without a reason. So they making shit up, like you have to show and achieve, to milk you for the value. Some stuff they learn at the management classes. To them, we are units, you can rarely expect humane treatment until you yourself understand that you deserve it.



Some people say you can get fired over this bluff. I give it zero chance, but think of this. You are already unhappy. You are already being treated unfairly, and every day you work there you will feel it, think about it, until you either restore the balance or quit. Learning truth is often unsettling and has consequences. Decide how you want to handle the situation because otherwise it's you who being handled.



Even if you lose your job (which can only happen either if you quit or allow your temper to get the better of you), you can always find a better one, where you will be at better position with all the experience behind your back, and can actually get better offer.



If you are strongly against the bluff, just get an offer for real. Update your LinkedIn and go to the couple of the interviews. See what options you have for the worst case scenario. I'm sure you'll be surprised.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 4





    This is a risky tactic if they call your bluff.

    – GrandMasterFlush
    13 hours ago






  • 2





    hi Ashton and welcome to Workplace. In general, this community advise not to lie intentionally. Also "they won't want to lose you over that" is an assumption. Could you expand your answer to help OP hedge their bet? basically, give advice how no to get fired if they follow your suggestion

    – aaaaaa
    11 hours ago











  • Terrible advice. The company is very likely to say 'great, enjoy your new job'.

    – 17 of 26
    11 hours ago











  • If company easily says that to the lead they are going down pretty soon anyway.

    – Ashton Catchem
    8 hours ago
















-4














Just say them you've got an offer twice your current salary. Eve if they raised yours recently, this makes you feel like you are seriously underpaid. They know they can pay it to you and they won't want to lose you over that. You'll get it.



UPD: The reasoning behind this advice is that if they are so eager to hire and overpay new employee without any actual experience on the job, with months ahead to fill, with no actual achievements, they have to be crazy to not try to at least bargain. What they doing with OP is a very regular thing actually. They negging him because he falls for it and allows them to pay less - so they do save a lot of money, while actually having the resources to give him a decent pay.



For them it's not even about money, they just feel they will look weak if they give you a raise without a reason. So they making shit up, like you have to show and achieve, to milk you for the value. Some stuff they learn at the management classes. To them, we are units, you can rarely expect humane treatment until you yourself understand that you deserve it.



Some people say you can get fired over this bluff. I give it zero chance, but think of this. You are already unhappy. You are already being treated unfairly, and every day you work there you will feel it, think about it, until you either restore the balance or quit. Learning truth is often unsettling and has consequences. Decide how you want to handle the situation because otherwise it's you who being handled.



Even if you lose your job (which can only happen either if you quit or allow your temper to get the better of you), you can always find a better one, where you will be at better position with all the experience behind your back, and can actually get better offer.



If you are strongly against the bluff, just get an offer for real. Update your LinkedIn and go to the couple of the interviews. See what options you have for the worst case scenario. I'm sure you'll be surprised.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 4





    This is a risky tactic if they call your bluff.

    – GrandMasterFlush
    13 hours ago






  • 2





    hi Ashton and welcome to Workplace. In general, this community advise not to lie intentionally. Also "they won't want to lose you over that" is an assumption. Could you expand your answer to help OP hedge their bet? basically, give advice how no to get fired if they follow your suggestion

    – aaaaaa
    11 hours ago











  • Terrible advice. The company is very likely to say 'great, enjoy your new job'.

    – 17 of 26
    11 hours ago











  • If company easily says that to the lead they are going down pretty soon anyway.

    – Ashton Catchem
    8 hours ago














-4












-4








-4







Just say them you've got an offer twice your current salary. Eve if they raised yours recently, this makes you feel like you are seriously underpaid. They know they can pay it to you and they won't want to lose you over that. You'll get it.



UPD: The reasoning behind this advice is that if they are so eager to hire and overpay new employee without any actual experience on the job, with months ahead to fill, with no actual achievements, they have to be crazy to not try to at least bargain. What they doing with OP is a very regular thing actually. They negging him because he falls for it and allows them to pay less - so they do save a lot of money, while actually having the resources to give him a decent pay.



For them it's not even about money, they just feel they will look weak if they give you a raise without a reason. So they making shit up, like you have to show and achieve, to milk you for the value. Some stuff they learn at the management classes. To them, we are units, you can rarely expect humane treatment until you yourself understand that you deserve it.



Some people say you can get fired over this bluff. I give it zero chance, but think of this. You are already unhappy. You are already being treated unfairly, and every day you work there you will feel it, think about it, until you either restore the balance or quit. Learning truth is often unsettling and has consequences. Decide how you want to handle the situation because otherwise it's you who being handled.



Even if you lose your job (which can only happen either if you quit or allow your temper to get the better of you), you can always find a better one, where you will be at better position with all the experience behind your back, and can actually get better offer.



If you are strongly against the bluff, just get an offer for real. Update your LinkedIn and go to the couple of the interviews. See what options you have for the worst case scenario. I'm sure you'll be surprised.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










Just say them you've got an offer twice your current salary. Eve if they raised yours recently, this makes you feel like you are seriously underpaid. They know they can pay it to you and they won't want to lose you over that. You'll get it.



UPD: The reasoning behind this advice is that if they are so eager to hire and overpay new employee without any actual experience on the job, with months ahead to fill, with no actual achievements, they have to be crazy to not try to at least bargain. What they doing with OP is a very regular thing actually. They negging him because he falls for it and allows them to pay less - so they do save a lot of money, while actually having the resources to give him a decent pay.



For them it's not even about money, they just feel they will look weak if they give you a raise without a reason. So they making shit up, like you have to show and achieve, to milk you for the value. Some stuff they learn at the management classes. To them, we are units, you can rarely expect humane treatment until you yourself understand that you deserve it.



Some people say you can get fired over this bluff. I give it zero chance, but think of this. You are already unhappy. You are already being treated unfairly, and every day you work there you will feel it, think about it, until you either restore the balance or quit. Learning truth is often unsettling and has consequences. Decide how you want to handle the situation because otherwise it's you who being handled.



Even if you lose your job (which can only happen either if you quit or allow your temper to get the better of you), you can always find a better one, where you will be at better position with all the experience behind your back, and can actually get better offer.



If you are strongly against the bluff, just get an offer for real. Update your LinkedIn and go to the couple of the interviews. See what options you have for the worst case scenario. I'm sure you'll be surprised.







share|improve this answer










New contributor




Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 8 hours ago





















New contributor




Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









answered 13 hours ago









Ashton CatchemAshton Catchem

11




11




New contributor




Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Ashton Catchem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 4





    This is a risky tactic if they call your bluff.

    – GrandMasterFlush
    13 hours ago






  • 2





    hi Ashton and welcome to Workplace. In general, this community advise not to lie intentionally. Also "they won't want to lose you over that" is an assumption. Could you expand your answer to help OP hedge their bet? basically, give advice how no to get fired if they follow your suggestion

    – aaaaaa
    11 hours ago











  • Terrible advice. The company is very likely to say 'great, enjoy your new job'.

    – 17 of 26
    11 hours ago











  • If company easily says that to the lead they are going down pretty soon anyway.

    – Ashton Catchem
    8 hours ago














  • 4





    This is a risky tactic if they call your bluff.

    – GrandMasterFlush
    13 hours ago






  • 2





    hi Ashton and welcome to Workplace. In general, this community advise not to lie intentionally. Also "they won't want to lose you over that" is an assumption. Could you expand your answer to help OP hedge their bet? basically, give advice how no to get fired if they follow your suggestion

    – aaaaaa
    11 hours ago











  • Terrible advice. The company is very likely to say 'great, enjoy your new job'.

    – 17 of 26
    11 hours ago











  • If company easily says that to the lead they are going down pretty soon anyway.

    – Ashton Catchem
    8 hours ago








4




4





This is a risky tactic if they call your bluff.

– GrandMasterFlush
13 hours ago





This is a risky tactic if they call your bluff.

– GrandMasterFlush
13 hours ago




2




2





hi Ashton and welcome to Workplace. In general, this community advise not to lie intentionally. Also "they won't want to lose you over that" is an assumption. Could you expand your answer to help OP hedge their bet? basically, give advice how no to get fired if they follow your suggestion

– aaaaaa
11 hours ago





hi Ashton and welcome to Workplace. In general, this community advise not to lie intentionally. Also "they won't want to lose you over that" is an assumption. Could you expand your answer to help OP hedge their bet? basically, give advice how no to get fired if they follow your suggestion

– aaaaaa
11 hours ago













Terrible advice. The company is very likely to say 'great, enjoy your new job'.

– 17 of 26
11 hours ago





Terrible advice. The company is very likely to say 'great, enjoy your new job'.

– 17 of 26
11 hours ago













If company easily says that to the lead they are going down pretty soon anyway.

– Ashton Catchem
8 hours ago





If company easily says that to the lead they are going down pretty soon anyway.

– Ashton Catchem
8 hours ago



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