What is the evidence that custom checks in Northern Ireland are going to result in violence? ...

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What is the evidence that custom checks in Northern Ireland are going to result in violence?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Why don't hard Brexiteers insist on a hard border to prevent illegal immigration after Brexit?Why are the nationalists and unionists in Ireland & Northern Ireland OK with using violence?Why is having border controls in Ireland so problematic for Irish nationalists?Does the UK-EU Joint Report essentially remove any leverage the UK has in further negotiations?UK Chequers and Facilitated Customs ArrangementCould the UK “take Ireland hostage?”No-deal Brexit and Irish border; can third countries transit through Republic of Ireland?How do Brexiteers interpret Trump's insistence on a wall?Would it be plausible to solve the Irish Border issue by unifying Ireland?A vote on the Brexit backstopWhy is a “hard border” between Eire and Northern Ireland such a problem for EU/UK negotiations around brexit?Is French Guiana a (hard) EU border?












6















UPDATE: I reformulated my question to stress that my focus is on the influence of customs checks, not on the violence in Northern Ireland in general.



My impression is that the EU and most British supporters of a soft Brexit agree that any solution that involves customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland is dangerous. Is it?



According to my experience, over 95% of private traffic on the customs border between Sweden and Norway passes through without stopping. I assume that a similar arrangement could be used on the Irish border.



Is there evidence that irregular spot-checking of a small minority of private traffic by customs officers would provoke violence?



Notes:



I'm sure that military posts on the border could easily become targets of violence, which is something that happened during The Troubles, but this is very different from hardly noticeable customs posts that let the great majority of private traffic pass through (which is the case on the border between Sweden and Norway).



I know that Northern Ireland is more violent than the European average, as shown by the murder of Lyra McKee, but this does not prove that lightweight customs checks would lead to increased violence.










share|improve this question




















  • 4





    And if you were a guy who thought that a part of Sweden belonged to Norway, and so that you should be able to travel to that part without having your id checked, how would you react if some did check it? (Assume you had guns and bombs at your disposal too.) Like this maybe: bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-14320577/…

    – Fizz
    11 hours ago













  • Or like this?

    – Fizz
    11 hours ago











  • You might be interested: politics.stackexchange.com/questions/34511/…

    – Allure
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @Fizz A lot of cars are stopped and checked by British traffic police in Northern Ireland every day, and it hasn't led to particularly high violence in the last 20 years. What is so different about cars being stopped by British customs officers? Both situations show British dominance over Northern Ireland and are probably equally unacceptable and offensive to radical Irish Republicans.

    – michau
    2 hours ago






  • 2





    @michau huge efforts have been expended to make the NI police force acceptable to republicans, including renaming it, creating an oversight board, and taking steps to increase non-unionist membership of the force. Perhaps having a separate customs force for Northern Ireland with similar governance would make it more palatable, but the police force does not call attention to the existence of the border, while customs enforcement would. Symbolism is important.

    – phoog
    2 hours ago
















6















UPDATE: I reformulated my question to stress that my focus is on the influence of customs checks, not on the violence in Northern Ireland in general.



My impression is that the EU and most British supporters of a soft Brexit agree that any solution that involves customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland is dangerous. Is it?



According to my experience, over 95% of private traffic on the customs border between Sweden and Norway passes through without stopping. I assume that a similar arrangement could be used on the Irish border.



Is there evidence that irregular spot-checking of a small minority of private traffic by customs officers would provoke violence?



Notes:



I'm sure that military posts on the border could easily become targets of violence, which is something that happened during The Troubles, but this is very different from hardly noticeable customs posts that let the great majority of private traffic pass through (which is the case on the border between Sweden and Norway).



I know that Northern Ireland is more violent than the European average, as shown by the murder of Lyra McKee, but this does not prove that lightweight customs checks would lead to increased violence.










share|improve this question




















  • 4





    And if you were a guy who thought that a part of Sweden belonged to Norway, and so that you should be able to travel to that part without having your id checked, how would you react if some did check it? (Assume you had guns and bombs at your disposal too.) Like this maybe: bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-14320577/…

    – Fizz
    11 hours ago













  • Or like this?

    – Fizz
    11 hours ago











  • You might be interested: politics.stackexchange.com/questions/34511/…

    – Allure
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @Fizz A lot of cars are stopped and checked by British traffic police in Northern Ireland every day, and it hasn't led to particularly high violence in the last 20 years. What is so different about cars being stopped by British customs officers? Both situations show British dominance over Northern Ireland and are probably equally unacceptable and offensive to radical Irish Republicans.

    – michau
    2 hours ago






  • 2





    @michau huge efforts have been expended to make the NI police force acceptable to republicans, including renaming it, creating an oversight board, and taking steps to increase non-unionist membership of the force. Perhaps having a separate customs force for Northern Ireland with similar governance would make it more palatable, but the police force does not call attention to the existence of the border, while customs enforcement would. Symbolism is important.

    – phoog
    2 hours ago














6












6








6


1






UPDATE: I reformulated my question to stress that my focus is on the influence of customs checks, not on the violence in Northern Ireland in general.



My impression is that the EU and most British supporters of a soft Brexit agree that any solution that involves customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland is dangerous. Is it?



According to my experience, over 95% of private traffic on the customs border between Sweden and Norway passes through without stopping. I assume that a similar arrangement could be used on the Irish border.



Is there evidence that irregular spot-checking of a small minority of private traffic by customs officers would provoke violence?



Notes:



I'm sure that military posts on the border could easily become targets of violence, which is something that happened during The Troubles, but this is very different from hardly noticeable customs posts that let the great majority of private traffic pass through (which is the case on the border between Sweden and Norway).



I know that Northern Ireland is more violent than the European average, as shown by the murder of Lyra McKee, but this does not prove that lightweight customs checks would lead to increased violence.










share|improve this question
















UPDATE: I reformulated my question to stress that my focus is on the influence of customs checks, not on the violence in Northern Ireland in general.



My impression is that the EU and most British supporters of a soft Brexit agree that any solution that involves customs border between Ireland and Northern Ireland is dangerous. Is it?



According to my experience, over 95% of private traffic on the customs border between Sweden and Norway passes through without stopping. I assume that a similar arrangement could be used on the Irish border.



Is there evidence that irregular spot-checking of a small minority of private traffic by customs officers would provoke violence?



Notes:



I'm sure that military posts on the border could easily become targets of violence, which is something that happened during The Troubles, but this is very different from hardly noticeable customs posts that let the great majority of private traffic pass through (which is the case on the border between Sweden and Norway).



I know that Northern Ireland is more violent than the European average, as shown by the murder of Lyra McKee, but this does not prove that lightweight customs checks would lead to increased violence.







brexit borders northern-ireland






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 hours ago







michau

















asked 11 hours ago









michaumichau

24918




24918








  • 4





    And if you were a guy who thought that a part of Sweden belonged to Norway, and so that you should be able to travel to that part without having your id checked, how would you react if some did check it? (Assume you had guns and bombs at your disposal too.) Like this maybe: bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-14320577/…

    – Fizz
    11 hours ago













  • Or like this?

    – Fizz
    11 hours ago











  • You might be interested: politics.stackexchange.com/questions/34511/…

    – Allure
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @Fizz A lot of cars are stopped and checked by British traffic police in Northern Ireland every day, and it hasn't led to particularly high violence in the last 20 years. What is so different about cars being stopped by British customs officers? Both situations show British dominance over Northern Ireland and are probably equally unacceptable and offensive to radical Irish Republicans.

    – michau
    2 hours ago






  • 2





    @michau huge efforts have been expended to make the NI police force acceptable to republicans, including renaming it, creating an oversight board, and taking steps to increase non-unionist membership of the force. Perhaps having a separate customs force for Northern Ireland with similar governance would make it more palatable, but the police force does not call attention to the existence of the border, while customs enforcement would. Symbolism is important.

    – phoog
    2 hours ago














  • 4





    And if you were a guy who thought that a part of Sweden belonged to Norway, and so that you should be able to travel to that part without having your id checked, how would you react if some did check it? (Assume you had guns and bombs at your disposal too.) Like this maybe: bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-14320577/…

    – Fizz
    11 hours ago













  • Or like this?

    – Fizz
    11 hours ago











  • You might be interested: politics.stackexchange.com/questions/34511/…

    – Allure
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    @Fizz A lot of cars are stopped and checked by British traffic police in Northern Ireland every day, and it hasn't led to particularly high violence in the last 20 years. What is so different about cars being stopped by British customs officers? Both situations show British dominance over Northern Ireland and are probably equally unacceptable and offensive to radical Irish Republicans.

    – michau
    2 hours ago






  • 2





    @michau huge efforts have been expended to make the NI police force acceptable to republicans, including renaming it, creating an oversight board, and taking steps to increase non-unionist membership of the force. Perhaps having a separate customs force for Northern Ireland with similar governance would make it more palatable, but the police force does not call attention to the existence of the border, while customs enforcement would. Symbolism is important.

    – phoog
    2 hours ago








4




4





And if you were a guy who thought that a part of Sweden belonged to Norway, and so that you should be able to travel to that part without having your id checked, how would you react if some did check it? (Assume you had guns and bombs at your disposal too.) Like this maybe: bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-14320577/…

– Fizz
11 hours ago







And if you were a guy who thought that a part of Sweden belonged to Norway, and so that you should be able to travel to that part without having your id checked, how would you react if some did check it? (Assume you had guns and bombs at your disposal too.) Like this maybe: bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-14320577/…

– Fizz
11 hours ago















Or like this?

– Fizz
11 hours ago





Or like this?

– Fizz
11 hours ago













You might be interested: politics.stackexchange.com/questions/34511/…

– Allure
3 hours ago





You might be interested: politics.stackexchange.com/questions/34511/…

– Allure
3 hours ago




1




1





@Fizz A lot of cars are stopped and checked by British traffic police in Northern Ireland every day, and it hasn't led to particularly high violence in the last 20 years. What is so different about cars being stopped by British customs officers? Both situations show British dominance over Northern Ireland and are probably equally unacceptable and offensive to radical Irish Republicans.

– michau
2 hours ago





@Fizz A lot of cars are stopped and checked by British traffic police in Northern Ireland every day, and it hasn't led to particularly high violence in the last 20 years. What is so different about cars being stopped by British customs officers? Both situations show British dominance over Northern Ireland and are probably equally unacceptable and offensive to radical Irish Republicans.

– michau
2 hours ago




2




2





@michau huge efforts have been expended to make the NI police force acceptable to republicans, including renaming it, creating an oversight board, and taking steps to increase non-unionist membership of the force. Perhaps having a separate customs force for Northern Ireland with similar governance would make it more palatable, but the police force does not call attention to the existence of the border, while customs enforcement would. Symbolism is important.

– phoog
2 hours ago





@michau huge efforts have been expended to make the NI police force acceptable to republicans, including renaming it, creating an oversight board, and taking steps to increase non-unionist membership of the force. Perhaps having a separate customs force for Northern Ireland with similar governance would make it more palatable, but the police force does not call attention to the existence of the border, while customs enforcement would. Symbolism is important.

– phoog
2 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















18














New here, but there's a misconception in your question. The worry over the border isn't about some trade disputes and companies turning ugly over tariffs; this is about the establishment of any border at all between 2 regions of Ireland.



I definitely can't go into all the details but here's a reference to the Wikipedia on The Troubles which is central to this conversation. From there, some simple Google foo will let you find more information on the violence that was happening within a generation ago over this very border. The Good Friday Agreement is a good place to start as well, although there is debate over whether that prevents trade checkpoints or ALL checkpoints. See other questions on this very site.



And as for evidence of violence well.... This happened just a few days ago






share|improve this answer








New contributor




Red Mage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 2





    I know about The Troubles, but the checkpoints in that period were very different from custom posts that e.g. Norway has. Your argument seems to be: "Military posts provoked violence, therefore violence will be also provoked by hardly noticeable customs posts that let the great majority of private traffic pass through". That doesn't sound very convincing. Also note that I'm asking about violence caused by custom checks, so the murder of Lyra McKee is hardly relevant here.

    – michau
    1 hour ago











  • Your answer seems to miss that Ireland today has full intra-CTA immigration checks for sea and air, and targeted checks for land travel. So technically the border has been established since 1997, when this started.

    – user71659
    1 hour ago





















6














To expand on Red Mage's answer, Wikipedia has a timeline of the Northern Ireland Troubles and peace process. To better understand it, it's good to note that the Good Friday Agreement was effective from December 1999.



Since the Wikipedia list is chronological, a good way to visualise the violence is to use the search option in your browser (which adds little yellow stripes in the scrollbar where the search term occurs).



For example, when we search for the word 'shot', we see many more instances before the turn of the millennium than after it. Other frequent terms include 'bomb', 'explosive', 'killed' and 'wound'. Notice that each of these terms are unlikely to be associated with other EU borders, it's not something you'd expect on the peaceful continent of Europe.



Another good way to read into the situation is to follow up on Wikipedia's references. The link to more extensive news articles which add a lot of context. It should also be noted that the list seems properly maintained. For example, the shooting of the journalist around the 2019 Easter weekend is not yet listed on that page because it's not yet confirmed to be related to the Troubles (though as explained in Red Mage's link, the police says the 'New IRA' is likely to be behind it).






share|improve this answer



















  • 1





    I'm asking about evidence that adding customs posts would result in increased violence (in particular, even when performing just lightweight custom checks that let the great majority of private traffic pass through). I can't see anything in your answer specifically related to this topic. The Wikipedia page you've linked to doesn't even contain the word "customs".

    – michau
    2 hours ago



















0














Regarding the updated question:




Customs posts were regularly targeted by the IRA throughout the Troubles as they viewed them as symbolic of the division between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. [...]



The Irish Prime Minister brought a copy of an Irish newspaper edition to the [EU-27] summit dinner to emphasise how far Northern Ireland and Ireland had come since the Troubles. The article shared the story of an IRA bombing at the Newry Customs Office in 1972. Nine people were killed and six injured in the attack when a bomb exploded prematurely on August 22. It was the worst attack on a customs post during the Troubles and the single biggest loss of life of customs officials (four). [...]



Another IRA attack on Cloghoge checkpoint near Newry in May 1992 resulted in the death of one soldier and the wounding of 23 others. [...]



PSNI Chief Constable George Hamilton warned earlier this year that if border posts and security installations were created as a result of a hard Brexit that they would be seen as "fair game" for attack by dissident republicans.



“The last thing we would want is any infrastructure around the border because there is something symbolic about it and it becomes a target for violent dissident republicans," the police chief said.



“Our assessment is that they would be a target because it would be representative of the state and in their minds fair game for attack. I would assume that that assessment is shared by senior politicians and officials who are negotiating Brexit."



The Chairman of the Police Federation for Northern Ireland Mark Lindsay said that border posts would make "sitting ducks" out of police.



“If we are saying in the future that police officers could be deployed to customs posts and other fixed points on a hardened border then they would become static targets. They would in effect become sitting ducks for the terrorists,” he said.




As you can see from the above mini-timeline, attack on the initially unhardened customs post(s) is what led to their militarization during the Troubles. The (militarized) border posts that you see in iconic imagery of the later Troubles didn't just happen to be there from the beginning. It was part of PIRA's "Long War" strategy to




To make the Six Counties... ungovernable except by colonial military rule.







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    3 Answers
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    3 Answers
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    active

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    active

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    active

    oldest

    votes









    18














    New here, but there's a misconception in your question. The worry over the border isn't about some trade disputes and companies turning ugly over tariffs; this is about the establishment of any border at all between 2 regions of Ireland.



    I definitely can't go into all the details but here's a reference to the Wikipedia on The Troubles which is central to this conversation. From there, some simple Google foo will let you find more information on the violence that was happening within a generation ago over this very border. The Good Friday Agreement is a good place to start as well, although there is debate over whether that prevents trade checkpoints or ALL checkpoints. See other questions on this very site.



    And as for evidence of violence well.... This happened just a few days ago






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Red Mage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.
















    • 2





      I know about The Troubles, but the checkpoints in that period were very different from custom posts that e.g. Norway has. Your argument seems to be: "Military posts provoked violence, therefore violence will be also provoked by hardly noticeable customs posts that let the great majority of private traffic pass through". That doesn't sound very convincing. Also note that I'm asking about violence caused by custom checks, so the murder of Lyra McKee is hardly relevant here.

      – michau
      1 hour ago











    • Your answer seems to miss that Ireland today has full intra-CTA immigration checks for sea and air, and targeted checks for land travel. So technically the border has been established since 1997, when this started.

      – user71659
      1 hour ago


















    18














    New here, but there's a misconception in your question. The worry over the border isn't about some trade disputes and companies turning ugly over tariffs; this is about the establishment of any border at all between 2 regions of Ireland.



    I definitely can't go into all the details but here's a reference to the Wikipedia on The Troubles which is central to this conversation. From there, some simple Google foo will let you find more information on the violence that was happening within a generation ago over this very border. The Good Friday Agreement is a good place to start as well, although there is debate over whether that prevents trade checkpoints or ALL checkpoints. See other questions on this very site.



    And as for evidence of violence well.... This happened just a few days ago






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Red Mage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.
















    • 2





      I know about The Troubles, but the checkpoints in that period were very different from custom posts that e.g. Norway has. Your argument seems to be: "Military posts provoked violence, therefore violence will be also provoked by hardly noticeable customs posts that let the great majority of private traffic pass through". That doesn't sound very convincing. Also note that I'm asking about violence caused by custom checks, so the murder of Lyra McKee is hardly relevant here.

      – michau
      1 hour ago











    • Your answer seems to miss that Ireland today has full intra-CTA immigration checks for sea and air, and targeted checks for land travel. So technically the border has been established since 1997, when this started.

      – user71659
      1 hour ago
















    18












    18








    18







    New here, but there's a misconception in your question. The worry over the border isn't about some trade disputes and companies turning ugly over tariffs; this is about the establishment of any border at all between 2 regions of Ireland.



    I definitely can't go into all the details but here's a reference to the Wikipedia on The Troubles which is central to this conversation. From there, some simple Google foo will let you find more information on the violence that was happening within a generation ago over this very border. The Good Friday Agreement is a good place to start as well, although there is debate over whether that prevents trade checkpoints or ALL checkpoints. See other questions on this very site.



    And as for evidence of violence well.... This happened just a few days ago






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Red Mage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.










    New here, but there's a misconception in your question. The worry over the border isn't about some trade disputes and companies turning ugly over tariffs; this is about the establishment of any border at all between 2 regions of Ireland.



    I definitely can't go into all the details but here's a reference to the Wikipedia on The Troubles which is central to this conversation. From there, some simple Google foo will let you find more information on the violence that was happening within a generation ago over this very border. The Good Friday Agreement is a good place to start as well, although there is debate over whether that prevents trade checkpoints or ALL checkpoints. See other questions on this very site.



    And as for evidence of violence well.... This happened just a few days ago







    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Red Mage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.









    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer






    New contributor




    Red Mage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.









    answered 11 hours ago









    Red MageRed Mage

    2812




    2812




    New contributor




    Red Mage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





    New contributor





    Red Mage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






    Red Mage is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.








    • 2





      I know about The Troubles, but the checkpoints in that period were very different from custom posts that e.g. Norway has. Your argument seems to be: "Military posts provoked violence, therefore violence will be also provoked by hardly noticeable customs posts that let the great majority of private traffic pass through". That doesn't sound very convincing. Also note that I'm asking about violence caused by custom checks, so the murder of Lyra McKee is hardly relevant here.

      – michau
      1 hour ago











    • Your answer seems to miss that Ireland today has full intra-CTA immigration checks for sea and air, and targeted checks for land travel. So technically the border has been established since 1997, when this started.

      – user71659
      1 hour ago
















    • 2





      I know about The Troubles, but the checkpoints in that period were very different from custom posts that e.g. Norway has. Your argument seems to be: "Military posts provoked violence, therefore violence will be also provoked by hardly noticeable customs posts that let the great majority of private traffic pass through". That doesn't sound very convincing. Also note that I'm asking about violence caused by custom checks, so the murder of Lyra McKee is hardly relevant here.

      – michau
      1 hour ago











    • Your answer seems to miss that Ireland today has full intra-CTA immigration checks for sea and air, and targeted checks for land travel. So technically the border has been established since 1997, when this started.

      – user71659
      1 hour ago










    2




    2





    I know about The Troubles, but the checkpoints in that period were very different from custom posts that e.g. Norway has. Your argument seems to be: "Military posts provoked violence, therefore violence will be also provoked by hardly noticeable customs posts that let the great majority of private traffic pass through". That doesn't sound very convincing. Also note that I'm asking about violence caused by custom checks, so the murder of Lyra McKee is hardly relevant here.

    – michau
    1 hour ago





    I know about The Troubles, but the checkpoints in that period were very different from custom posts that e.g. Norway has. Your argument seems to be: "Military posts provoked violence, therefore violence will be also provoked by hardly noticeable customs posts that let the great majority of private traffic pass through". That doesn't sound very convincing. Also note that I'm asking about violence caused by custom checks, so the murder of Lyra McKee is hardly relevant here.

    – michau
    1 hour ago













    Your answer seems to miss that Ireland today has full intra-CTA immigration checks for sea and air, and targeted checks for land travel. So technically the border has been established since 1997, when this started.

    – user71659
    1 hour ago







    Your answer seems to miss that Ireland today has full intra-CTA immigration checks for sea and air, and targeted checks for land travel. So technically the border has been established since 1997, when this started.

    – user71659
    1 hour ago













    6














    To expand on Red Mage's answer, Wikipedia has a timeline of the Northern Ireland Troubles and peace process. To better understand it, it's good to note that the Good Friday Agreement was effective from December 1999.



    Since the Wikipedia list is chronological, a good way to visualise the violence is to use the search option in your browser (which adds little yellow stripes in the scrollbar where the search term occurs).



    For example, when we search for the word 'shot', we see many more instances before the turn of the millennium than after it. Other frequent terms include 'bomb', 'explosive', 'killed' and 'wound'. Notice that each of these terms are unlikely to be associated with other EU borders, it's not something you'd expect on the peaceful continent of Europe.



    Another good way to read into the situation is to follow up on Wikipedia's references. The link to more extensive news articles which add a lot of context. It should also be noted that the list seems properly maintained. For example, the shooting of the journalist around the 2019 Easter weekend is not yet listed on that page because it's not yet confirmed to be related to the Troubles (though as explained in Red Mage's link, the police says the 'New IRA' is likely to be behind it).






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1





      I'm asking about evidence that adding customs posts would result in increased violence (in particular, even when performing just lightweight custom checks that let the great majority of private traffic pass through). I can't see anything in your answer specifically related to this topic. The Wikipedia page you've linked to doesn't even contain the word "customs".

      – michau
      2 hours ago
















    6














    To expand on Red Mage's answer, Wikipedia has a timeline of the Northern Ireland Troubles and peace process. To better understand it, it's good to note that the Good Friday Agreement was effective from December 1999.



    Since the Wikipedia list is chronological, a good way to visualise the violence is to use the search option in your browser (which adds little yellow stripes in the scrollbar where the search term occurs).



    For example, when we search for the word 'shot', we see many more instances before the turn of the millennium than after it. Other frequent terms include 'bomb', 'explosive', 'killed' and 'wound'. Notice that each of these terms are unlikely to be associated with other EU borders, it's not something you'd expect on the peaceful continent of Europe.



    Another good way to read into the situation is to follow up on Wikipedia's references. The link to more extensive news articles which add a lot of context. It should also be noted that the list seems properly maintained. For example, the shooting of the journalist around the 2019 Easter weekend is not yet listed on that page because it's not yet confirmed to be related to the Troubles (though as explained in Red Mage's link, the police says the 'New IRA' is likely to be behind it).






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1





      I'm asking about evidence that adding customs posts would result in increased violence (in particular, even when performing just lightweight custom checks that let the great majority of private traffic pass through). I can't see anything in your answer specifically related to this topic. The Wikipedia page you've linked to doesn't even contain the word "customs".

      – michau
      2 hours ago














    6












    6








    6







    To expand on Red Mage's answer, Wikipedia has a timeline of the Northern Ireland Troubles and peace process. To better understand it, it's good to note that the Good Friday Agreement was effective from December 1999.



    Since the Wikipedia list is chronological, a good way to visualise the violence is to use the search option in your browser (which adds little yellow stripes in the scrollbar where the search term occurs).



    For example, when we search for the word 'shot', we see many more instances before the turn of the millennium than after it. Other frequent terms include 'bomb', 'explosive', 'killed' and 'wound'. Notice that each of these terms are unlikely to be associated with other EU borders, it's not something you'd expect on the peaceful continent of Europe.



    Another good way to read into the situation is to follow up on Wikipedia's references. The link to more extensive news articles which add a lot of context. It should also be noted that the list seems properly maintained. For example, the shooting of the journalist around the 2019 Easter weekend is not yet listed on that page because it's not yet confirmed to be related to the Troubles (though as explained in Red Mage's link, the police says the 'New IRA' is likely to be behind it).






    share|improve this answer













    To expand on Red Mage's answer, Wikipedia has a timeline of the Northern Ireland Troubles and peace process. To better understand it, it's good to note that the Good Friday Agreement was effective from December 1999.



    Since the Wikipedia list is chronological, a good way to visualise the violence is to use the search option in your browser (which adds little yellow stripes in the scrollbar where the search term occurs).



    For example, when we search for the word 'shot', we see many more instances before the turn of the millennium than after it. Other frequent terms include 'bomb', 'explosive', 'killed' and 'wound'. Notice that each of these terms are unlikely to be associated with other EU borders, it's not something you'd expect on the peaceful continent of Europe.



    Another good way to read into the situation is to follow up on Wikipedia's references. The link to more extensive news articles which add a lot of context. It should also be noted that the list seems properly maintained. For example, the shooting of the journalist around the 2019 Easter weekend is not yet listed on that page because it's not yet confirmed to be related to the Troubles (though as explained in Red Mage's link, the police says the 'New IRA' is likely to be behind it).







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 6 hours ago









    JJJJJJ

    7,53922762




    7,53922762








    • 1





      I'm asking about evidence that adding customs posts would result in increased violence (in particular, even when performing just lightweight custom checks that let the great majority of private traffic pass through). I can't see anything in your answer specifically related to this topic. The Wikipedia page you've linked to doesn't even contain the word "customs".

      – michau
      2 hours ago














    • 1





      I'm asking about evidence that adding customs posts would result in increased violence (in particular, even when performing just lightweight custom checks that let the great majority of private traffic pass through). I can't see anything in your answer specifically related to this topic. The Wikipedia page you've linked to doesn't even contain the word "customs".

      – michau
      2 hours ago








    1




    1





    I'm asking about evidence that adding customs posts would result in increased violence (in particular, even when performing just lightweight custom checks that let the great majority of private traffic pass through). I can't see anything in your answer specifically related to this topic. The Wikipedia page you've linked to doesn't even contain the word "customs".

    – michau
    2 hours ago





    I'm asking about evidence that adding customs posts would result in increased violence (in particular, even when performing just lightweight custom checks that let the great majority of private traffic pass through). I can't see anything in your answer specifically related to this topic. The Wikipedia page you've linked to doesn't even contain the word "customs".

    – michau
    2 hours ago











    0














    Regarding the updated question:




    Customs posts were regularly targeted by the IRA throughout the Troubles as they viewed them as symbolic of the division between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. [...]



    The Irish Prime Minister brought a copy of an Irish newspaper edition to the [EU-27] summit dinner to emphasise how far Northern Ireland and Ireland had come since the Troubles. The article shared the story of an IRA bombing at the Newry Customs Office in 1972. Nine people were killed and six injured in the attack when a bomb exploded prematurely on August 22. It was the worst attack on a customs post during the Troubles and the single biggest loss of life of customs officials (four). [...]



    Another IRA attack on Cloghoge checkpoint near Newry in May 1992 resulted in the death of one soldier and the wounding of 23 others. [...]



    PSNI Chief Constable George Hamilton warned earlier this year that if border posts and security installations were created as a result of a hard Brexit that they would be seen as "fair game" for attack by dissident republicans.



    “The last thing we would want is any infrastructure around the border because there is something symbolic about it and it becomes a target for violent dissident republicans," the police chief said.



    “Our assessment is that they would be a target because it would be representative of the state and in their minds fair game for attack. I would assume that that assessment is shared by senior politicians and officials who are negotiating Brexit."



    The Chairman of the Police Federation for Northern Ireland Mark Lindsay said that border posts would make "sitting ducks" out of police.



    “If we are saying in the future that police officers could be deployed to customs posts and other fixed points on a hardened border then they would become static targets. They would in effect become sitting ducks for the terrorists,” he said.




    As you can see from the above mini-timeline, attack on the initially unhardened customs post(s) is what led to their militarization during the Troubles. The (militarized) border posts that you see in iconic imagery of the later Troubles didn't just happen to be there from the beginning. It was part of PIRA's "Long War" strategy to




    To make the Six Counties... ungovernable except by colonial military rule.







    share|improve this answer






























      0














      Regarding the updated question:




      Customs posts were regularly targeted by the IRA throughout the Troubles as they viewed them as symbolic of the division between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. [...]



      The Irish Prime Minister brought a copy of an Irish newspaper edition to the [EU-27] summit dinner to emphasise how far Northern Ireland and Ireland had come since the Troubles. The article shared the story of an IRA bombing at the Newry Customs Office in 1972. Nine people were killed and six injured in the attack when a bomb exploded prematurely on August 22. It was the worst attack on a customs post during the Troubles and the single biggest loss of life of customs officials (four). [...]



      Another IRA attack on Cloghoge checkpoint near Newry in May 1992 resulted in the death of one soldier and the wounding of 23 others. [...]



      PSNI Chief Constable George Hamilton warned earlier this year that if border posts and security installations were created as a result of a hard Brexit that they would be seen as "fair game" for attack by dissident republicans.



      “The last thing we would want is any infrastructure around the border because there is something symbolic about it and it becomes a target for violent dissident republicans," the police chief said.



      “Our assessment is that they would be a target because it would be representative of the state and in their minds fair game for attack. I would assume that that assessment is shared by senior politicians and officials who are negotiating Brexit."



      The Chairman of the Police Federation for Northern Ireland Mark Lindsay said that border posts would make "sitting ducks" out of police.



      “If we are saying in the future that police officers could be deployed to customs posts and other fixed points on a hardened border then they would become static targets. They would in effect become sitting ducks for the terrorists,” he said.




      As you can see from the above mini-timeline, attack on the initially unhardened customs post(s) is what led to their militarization during the Troubles. The (militarized) border posts that you see in iconic imagery of the later Troubles didn't just happen to be there from the beginning. It was part of PIRA's "Long War" strategy to




      To make the Six Counties... ungovernable except by colonial military rule.







      share|improve this answer




























        0












        0








        0







        Regarding the updated question:




        Customs posts were regularly targeted by the IRA throughout the Troubles as they viewed them as symbolic of the division between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. [...]



        The Irish Prime Minister brought a copy of an Irish newspaper edition to the [EU-27] summit dinner to emphasise how far Northern Ireland and Ireland had come since the Troubles. The article shared the story of an IRA bombing at the Newry Customs Office in 1972. Nine people were killed and six injured in the attack when a bomb exploded prematurely on August 22. It was the worst attack on a customs post during the Troubles and the single biggest loss of life of customs officials (four). [...]



        Another IRA attack on Cloghoge checkpoint near Newry in May 1992 resulted in the death of one soldier and the wounding of 23 others. [...]



        PSNI Chief Constable George Hamilton warned earlier this year that if border posts and security installations were created as a result of a hard Brexit that they would be seen as "fair game" for attack by dissident republicans.



        “The last thing we would want is any infrastructure around the border because there is something symbolic about it and it becomes a target for violent dissident republicans," the police chief said.



        “Our assessment is that they would be a target because it would be representative of the state and in their minds fair game for attack. I would assume that that assessment is shared by senior politicians and officials who are negotiating Brexit."



        The Chairman of the Police Federation for Northern Ireland Mark Lindsay said that border posts would make "sitting ducks" out of police.



        “If we are saying in the future that police officers could be deployed to customs posts and other fixed points on a hardened border then they would become static targets. They would in effect become sitting ducks for the terrorists,” he said.




        As you can see from the above mini-timeline, attack on the initially unhardened customs post(s) is what led to their militarization during the Troubles. The (militarized) border posts that you see in iconic imagery of the later Troubles didn't just happen to be there from the beginning. It was part of PIRA's "Long War" strategy to




        To make the Six Counties... ungovernable except by colonial military rule.







        share|improve this answer















        Regarding the updated question:




        Customs posts were regularly targeted by the IRA throughout the Troubles as they viewed them as symbolic of the division between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. [...]



        The Irish Prime Minister brought a copy of an Irish newspaper edition to the [EU-27] summit dinner to emphasise how far Northern Ireland and Ireland had come since the Troubles. The article shared the story of an IRA bombing at the Newry Customs Office in 1972. Nine people were killed and six injured in the attack when a bomb exploded prematurely on August 22. It was the worst attack on a customs post during the Troubles and the single biggest loss of life of customs officials (four). [...]



        Another IRA attack on Cloghoge checkpoint near Newry in May 1992 resulted in the death of one soldier and the wounding of 23 others. [...]



        PSNI Chief Constable George Hamilton warned earlier this year that if border posts and security installations were created as a result of a hard Brexit that they would be seen as "fair game" for attack by dissident republicans.



        “The last thing we would want is any infrastructure around the border because there is something symbolic about it and it becomes a target for violent dissident republicans," the police chief said.



        “Our assessment is that they would be a target because it would be representative of the state and in their minds fair game for attack. I would assume that that assessment is shared by senior politicians and officials who are negotiating Brexit."



        The Chairman of the Police Federation for Northern Ireland Mark Lindsay said that border posts would make "sitting ducks" out of police.



        “If we are saying in the future that police officers could be deployed to customs posts and other fixed points on a hardened border then they would become static targets. They would in effect become sitting ducks for the terrorists,” he said.




        As you can see from the above mini-timeline, attack on the initially unhardened customs post(s) is what led to their militarization during the Troubles. The (militarized) border posts that you see in iconic imagery of the later Troubles didn't just happen to be there from the beginning. It was part of PIRA's "Long War" strategy to




        To make the Six Counties... ungovernable except by colonial military rule.








        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 2 mins ago

























        answered 28 mins ago









        FizzFizz

        16.4k242106




        16.4k242106






























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