Should I warn new/prospective PhD Student that supervisor is terrible?I am a PhD student and hate it here....

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Should I warn new/prospective PhD Student that supervisor is terrible?


I am a PhD student and hate it here. How can I warn prospective students during admit weekend without ruining my reputation?Can I tell my PhD supervisor honestly why I want to leave himShould I leave my current PhD if I don't like the research problems my advisor suggests?Could there be a problem with my PhD supervisor (lack of assertiveness, essentially a “yes woman”)?I can't trust my supervisor anymore, but have to have his letter of recommendation. What should I do?Do students needs to be specifically mentioned on grant proposals for projects funded by government agencies in the US?How do I tell my adviser that group meetings may be too time-consuming in my last year of my PhD?My supervisor is too involved, what should I do?In dilemma of choosing supervisor for postdoctoral researchHow should an advisor handle an underperforming PhD student?Creative solutions to convince research dean that I deserve PhD candidatureIs it advisable to drop out of a PhD and look for a new one?













33















My supervisor got some funding and is hiring new PhD students. Today one of them came to an interview and we told him about the things that we do.



The main problem is that my supervisor is a terrible supervisor. He wants to lead the research project but has no idea on how to work on real implementations. He does not help or even provide feedback although he still is the leading author of all the publications we do. He does not want to spend money on us or on equipment, but expects results as if we were using high-end equipment. He treats us plainly wrong, taking credit for our accomplishments, humiliating us when possible, not helping or leading in any way and not allowing as to grow as researchers.



I know that I could be biased for some personal bad experience but 100% of the students at my research center (both his students and other students) agree with me that he is, by far, the worst possible advisor that there is in our research center.



My question is: should I warn a new coming PhD student about this so that he can take his decision taking this into account, or am I supposed to say nothing because it is not my business?



On one hand, when I was where he is now I would have LOVED if someone told me about this situation, but on the other hand as a PhD student I'm risking a lot by saying this and I don't know if I should get involved.










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  • 14





    Seems risky. But why are you sticking around? I hope you have a path to success here.

    – Buffy
    yesterday






  • 25





    Related: I am a PhD student and hate it here. How can I warn prospective students during admit weekend without ruining my reputation? . In particular, I think the first answer there, which is basically "state facts not conclusions", applies here as well.

    – cag51
    yesterday








  • 7





    Have you ever watched a friend head into a doomed marriage? Did you try to warn your friend? Didn't work, did it? And you lost a friend in the process.

    – Bob Brown
    yesterday






  • 7





    @BobBrown It works when you're still seeing multiple people. It also works if the candidate has experience with bad work environments and a bad boss before, among the reasons is why I strongly believe that grad students should have work experience first.

    – user71659
    yesterday








  • 4





    As your username says, do use an anonimous email account to send this person an email in which you are careful not to reveal any detail that could point to you. To do this, it may be best to reveal only what other people in your research centre or even administrative staff have witnessed and think of this advisor.

    – user21820
    22 hours ago
















33















My supervisor got some funding and is hiring new PhD students. Today one of them came to an interview and we told him about the things that we do.



The main problem is that my supervisor is a terrible supervisor. He wants to lead the research project but has no idea on how to work on real implementations. He does not help or even provide feedback although he still is the leading author of all the publications we do. He does not want to spend money on us or on equipment, but expects results as if we were using high-end equipment. He treats us plainly wrong, taking credit for our accomplishments, humiliating us when possible, not helping or leading in any way and not allowing as to grow as researchers.



I know that I could be biased for some personal bad experience but 100% of the students at my research center (both his students and other students) agree with me that he is, by far, the worst possible advisor that there is in our research center.



My question is: should I warn a new coming PhD student about this so that he can take his decision taking this into account, or am I supposed to say nothing because it is not my business?



On one hand, when I was where he is now I would have LOVED if someone told me about this situation, but on the other hand as a PhD student I'm risking a lot by saying this and I don't know if I should get involved.










share|improve this question









New contributor




AnonimousPhD is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • 14





    Seems risky. But why are you sticking around? I hope you have a path to success here.

    – Buffy
    yesterday






  • 25





    Related: I am a PhD student and hate it here. How can I warn prospective students during admit weekend without ruining my reputation? . In particular, I think the first answer there, which is basically "state facts not conclusions", applies here as well.

    – cag51
    yesterday








  • 7





    Have you ever watched a friend head into a doomed marriage? Did you try to warn your friend? Didn't work, did it? And you lost a friend in the process.

    – Bob Brown
    yesterday






  • 7





    @BobBrown It works when you're still seeing multiple people. It also works if the candidate has experience with bad work environments and a bad boss before, among the reasons is why I strongly believe that grad students should have work experience first.

    – user71659
    yesterday








  • 4





    As your username says, do use an anonimous email account to send this person an email in which you are careful not to reveal any detail that could point to you. To do this, it may be best to reveal only what other people in your research centre or even administrative staff have witnessed and think of this advisor.

    – user21820
    22 hours ago














33












33








33


6






My supervisor got some funding and is hiring new PhD students. Today one of them came to an interview and we told him about the things that we do.



The main problem is that my supervisor is a terrible supervisor. He wants to lead the research project but has no idea on how to work on real implementations. He does not help or even provide feedback although he still is the leading author of all the publications we do. He does not want to spend money on us or on equipment, but expects results as if we were using high-end equipment. He treats us plainly wrong, taking credit for our accomplishments, humiliating us when possible, not helping or leading in any way and not allowing as to grow as researchers.



I know that I could be biased for some personal bad experience but 100% of the students at my research center (both his students and other students) agree with me that he is, by far, the worst possible advisor that there is in our research center.



My question is: should I warn a new coming PhD student about this so that he can take his decision taking this into account, or am I supposed to say nothing because it is not my business?



On one hand, when I was where he is now I would have LOVED if someone told me about this situation, but on the other hand as a PhD student I'm risking a lot by saying this and I don't know if I should get involved.










share|improve this question









New contributor




AnonimousPhD is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












My supervisor got some funding and is hiring new PhD students. Today one of them came to an interview and we told him about the things that we do.



The main problem is that my supervisor is a terrible supervisor. He wants to lead the research project but has no idea on how to work on real implementations. He does not help or even provide feedback although he still is the leading author of all the publications we do. He does not want to spend money on us or on equipment, but expects results as if we were using high-end equipment. He treats us plainly wrong, taking credit for our accomplishments, humiliating us when possible, not helping or leading in any way and not allowing as to grow as researchers.



I know that I could be biased for some personal bad experience but 100% of the students at my research center (both his students and other students) agree with me that he is, by far, the worst possible advisor that there is in our research center.



My question is: should I warn a new coming PhD student about this so that he can take his decision taking this into account, or am I supposed to say nothing because it is not my business?



On one hand, when I was where he is now I would have LOVED if someone told me about this situation, but on the other hand as a PhD student I'm risking a lot by saying this and I don't know if I should get involved.







phd advisor






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edited 14 mins ago









smci

1,5731017




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asked yesterday









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Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 14





    Seems risky. But why are you sticking around? I hope you have a path to success here.

    – Buffy
    yesterday






  • 25





    Related: I am a PhD student and hate it here. How can I warn prospective students during admit weekend without ruining my reputation? . In particular, I think the first answer there, which is basically "state facts not conclusions", applies here as well.

    – cag51
    yesterday








  • 7





    Have you ever watched a friend head into a doomed marriage? Did you try to warn your friend? Didn't work, did it? And you lost a friend in the process.

    – Bob Brown
    yesterday






  • 7





    @BobBrown It works when you're still seeing multiple people. It also works if the candidate has experience with bad work environments and a bad boss before, among the reasons is why I strongly believe that grad students should have work experience first.

    – user71659
    yesterday








  • 4





    As your username says, do use an anonimous email account to send this person an email in which you are careful not to reveal any detail that could point to you. To do this, it may be best to reveal only what other people in your research centre or even administrative staff have witnessed and think of this advisor.

    – user21820
    22 hours ago














  • 14





    Seems risky. But why are you sticking around? I hope you have a path to success here.

    – Buffy
    yesterday






  • 25





    Related: I am a PhD student and hate it here. How can I warn prospective students during admit weekend without ruining my reputation? . In particular, I think the first answer there, which is basically "state facts not conclusions", applies here as well.

    – cag51
    yesterday








  • 7





    Have you ever watched a friend head into a doomed marriage? Did you try to warn your friend? Didn't work, did it? And you lost a friend in the process.

    – Bob Brown
    yesterday






  • 7





    @BobBrown It works when you're still seeing multiple people. It also works if the candidate has experience with bad work environments and a bad boss before, among the reasons is why I strongly believe that grad students should have work experience first.

    – user71659
    yesterday








  • 4





    As your username says, do use an anonimous email account to send this person an email in which you are careful not to reveal any detail that could point to you. To do this, it may be best to reveal only what other people in your research centre or even administrative staff have witnessed and think of this advisor.

    – user21820
    22 hours ago








14




14





Seems risky. But why are you sticking around? I hope you have a path to success here.

– Buffy
yesterday





Seems risky. But why are you sticking around? I hope you have a path to success here.

– Buffy
yesterday




25




25





Related: I am a PhD student and hate it here. How can I warn prospective students during admit weekend without ruining my reputation? . In particular, I think the first answer there, which is basically "state facts not conclusions", applies here as well.

– cag51
yesterday







Related: I am a PhD student and hate it here. How can I warn prospective students during admit weekend without ruining my reputation? . In particular, I think the first answer there, which is basically "state facts not conclusions", applies here as well.

– cag51
yesterday






7




7





Have you ever watched a friend head into a doomed marriage? Did you try to warn your friend? Didn't work, did it? And you lost a friend in the process.

– Bob Brown
yesterday





Have you ever watched a friend head into a doomed marriage? Did you try to warn your friend? Didn't work, did it? And you lost a friend in the process.

– Bob Brown
yesterday




7




7





@BobBrown It works when you're still seeing multiple people. It also works if the candidate has experience with bad work environments and a bad boss before, among the reasons is why I strongly believe that grad students should have work experience first.

– user71659
yesterday







@BobBrown It works when you're still seeing multiple people. It also works if the candidate has experience with bad work environments and a bad boss before, among the reasons is why I strongly believe that grad students should have work experience first.

– user71659
yesterday






4




4





As your username says, do use an anonimous email account to send this person an email in which you are careful not to reveal any detail that could point to you. To do this, it may be best to reveal only what other people in your research centre or even administrative staff have witnessed and think of this advisor.

– user21820
22 hours ago





As your username says, do use an anonimous email account to send this person an email in which you are careful not to reveal any detail that could point to you. To do this, it may be best to reveal only what other people in your research centre or even administrative staff have witnessed and think of this advisor.

– user21820
22 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















47














You should. As you mentioned yourself, you would have loved it if someone had warned you about things before you went, and "do unto others as you would they do unto you" is a good maxim to live by.



Having said that, you should also take steps to protect yourself. Talk to the student in private, and ask for confidentiality. Do it face-to-face or via telephone/Skype if you can; if you must use email, avoid using your institutional email address. You've already acknowledged you might be biased, so tell the student the facts only and don't add anything that you inferred from the facts. For example, instead of "He does not help or even provide feedback", say how many times you meet him or attempt to contact him a week. Describe how those meetings went - what did you say, what did he say, what did you do next? Try not to say "he does not help" as though it's a bad thing: it's actually possible he is expecting you to work independently for various reasons (e.g. you were so good he doesn't think you need close supervision).






share|improve this answer





















  • 23





    I'd say face-to-face only. Emails can be forwarded. Any information stored electronically can potentially be exposed.

    – Granny Aching
    16 hours ago











  • +1 If communication that leaves any kind of trail is used you should absolutely only state facts. Neither draw your own conclusions nor express opinions as fact.

    – technical_difficulty
    8 hours ago













  • Unfortunately, there are people who do audio recording even face to face.

    – Monkia
    7 hours ago



















6














You should have to warn any prospective student, if you think you could. Me too, I wished if some one warned me before joining the toxic lab where I have been forced to leave an another student was not allowed to defend after four years, so you are saving their life and wasting years.



Later, after looking for other labs, I found that students are afraid to tell the truth because of the sensitivity of their position, they forwarded me to alumni and others dare to speak up with me and warned me and I am so grateful for them because they saved me from the trap.



Of course, sometimes the student is desperate and need any position as long as it is competitive and hard sometimes to find a slot. I did that although the bad feedback because I was in a desperate need for money and I took decision this is would be a temporary place.



To sum up, there is no ideal place, however, based on the OP’s description this is a terrible supervisor, I cannot find any positive lights for any prospective student to work under him/her.



So, I you think you are capable you can say this information is confidential and tell the truth, or if you feel that you embarrassed to say forward the student to alumni that had witnessed the experience. I stress this telling the truth is important, it is like marrying the wrong man or woman.






share|improve this answer































    2














    I don't have PhD, because I bailed out after completing requirements for MS.



    If I go back to school, I would definitely want to know who is helpful and who is not. So I would say it is the right thing to do to warn the student.



    However, be careful, because some professors can be very vindictive, and can cause serious damage to your academic career, so:




    • talk to that student face to face

    • no electronic communication of any kind

    • no written communication either

    • try to find an opportunity where nobody can see you talking to this student

    • keep it short and factual - absolutely no venting

    • think in advance what to say, so you can be as brief as possible






    share|improve this answer








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      0














      First, to disqualify my opinion, I did not go through a Ph.D. program. I am far from being an Academic. I have helped friends with their Ph.D. research and had things been different I would have loved to spend years in the Academic lab. Instead, I've spent my time in corporate offices doing commercial product development.



      Second, warning someone off is a bad thing -- especially for you. There are very few circumstances under which you can save someone else trouble, and avoid trouble yourself. The candidates you are talking to are anxious to have a slot -- almost any slot. Your warning won't put them off if they are otherwise interested, or desperate, and you will have marked yourself as someone they have material to use against later.



      Third, don't start a palace revolt and rebel against the person in charge unless you are certain that you can bring them down, and that you benefit from the change. The new person can be worse, or the lab can be disbanded, or someone new can be appointed who just doesn't understand your work. No problem, right? Just start over. Big setback. Or, worse, you don't depose the leader. Be ready for the purge.



      If you have unassailable evidence of sexual exploitation or severe financial malfeasance you might stand a chance. Micromanagement, gruff temper, credit-stealing, incompetence, surly disposition, bad advice, or absentee guidance -- you don't stand a chance. The institution probably already knows and yet he remains in place. You are unlikely to be the agent of change you would like to be and still preserve the work you are doing and the progress you have made.



      Your best bet is to get out. Ideally, you get out by finishing, accepting the degree, and finding a wonderful postdoc situation. If the PI's reputation is so negative, they may drag you down even after you are finished with them. Not ideal, but perhaps better, is you find a lab where you can thrive and move there. Network with others. Reach out where other's have shown interest. You will be better losing some time and having the right, enriching experience.



      Summarizing, I suggest that you do not attempt to dissuade the candidate from joining the lab. Not in a selfish sense, but with a sense of self-preservation, watch out for yourself and your best interests.






      share|improve this answer



















      • 9





        Not sure I agree. For your point #2, students often have multiple, ~equal offers, and would appreciate the warning. The part about "marking yourself as someone they have material to use against later" seems particularly far-fetched -- it's not Hunger Games. For #3, it is possible to quietly give advice (or better yet, state facts) without trying to "take down" a professor (which I agree would be hard).

        – cag51
        yesterday








      • 6





        I feel this is horrifically bad advice. Having a corporate paycheck, you would never know how it is to be stuck after year 8 with absolutely no degree to show, little experience desirable to employers, no savings or heavy undergrad debt, and no friends around you. Unlike a job, a grad student whose stuck in a bad situation has very little out, and it's well known this leads to mental health issues. It's something you haven't seen from a stable corporate environment.

        – user71659
        yesterday








      • 4





        Good candidates have multiple slots. Candidates may also be accepted by the school and have multiple advisor options. My lab's had an offer acceptance rate of about 40% in the last 5 years. I had 3 offers going into grad school and 3 for a postdoc.

        – user71659
        yesterday








      • 4





        I don’t agree with this answer at all.

        – Monkia
        19 hours ago






      • 2





        It is interesting how strongly others disagree with this position. I can only assume that academic humans are fundamentally different from high- tech startup humans. One may not be 8 years in with no degree, but one can be years in with invested stock options, no money to exercise, and nowhere to go. I have had my attempt to help someone be used against me (#2). For #3, in the long term, nothing is quiet, and everything you say is eventually heard exact where it will hurt you the most. Sounds paranoid, is a bit hyperbolic, but is true.

        – cmm
        15 hours ago











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      4 Answers
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      4 Answers
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      47














      You should. As you mentioned yourself, you would have loved it if someone had warned you about things before you went, and "do unto others as you would they do unto you" is a good maxim to live by.



      Having said that, you should also take steps to protect yourself. Talk to the student in private, and ask for confidentiality. Do it face-to-face or via telephone/Skype if you can; if you must use email, avoid using your institutional email address. You've already acknowledged you might be biased, so tell the student the facts only and don't add anything that you inferred from the facts. For example, instead of "He does not help or even provide feedback", say how many times you meet him or attempt to contact him a week. Describe how those meetings went - what did you say, what did he say, what did you do next? Try not to say "he does not help" as though it's a bad thing: it's actually possible he is expecting you to work independently for various reasons (e.g. you were so good he doesn't think you need close supervision).






      share|improve this answer





















      • 23





        I'd say face-to-face only. Emails can be forwarded. Any information stored electronically can potentially be exposed.

        – Granny Aching
        16 hours ago











      • +1 If communication that leaves any kind of trail is used you should absolutely only state facts. Neither draw your own conclusions nor express opinions as fact.

        – technical_difficulty
        8 hours ago













      • Unfortunately, there are people who do audio recording even face to face.

        – Monkia
        7 hours ago
















      47














      You should. As you mentioned yourself, you would have loved it if someone had warned you about things before you went, and "do unto others as you would they do unto you" is a good maxim to live by.



      Having said that, you should also take steps to protect yourself. Talk to the student in private, and ask for confidentiality. Do it face-to-face or via telephone/Skype if you can; if you must use email, avoid using your institutional email address. You've already acknowledged you might be biased, so tell the student the facts only and don't add anything that you inferred from the facts. For example, instead of "He does not help or even provide feedback", say how many times you meet him or attempt to contact him a week. Describe how those meetings went - what did you say, what did he say, what did you do next? Try not to say "he does not help" as though it's a bad thing: it's actually possible he is expecting you to work independently for various reasons (e.g. you were so good he doesn't think you need close supervision).






      share|improve this answer





















      • 23





        I'd say face-to-face only. Emails can be forwarded. Any information stored electronically can potentially be exposed.

        – Granny Aching
        16 hours ago











      • +1 If communication that leaves any kind of trail is used you should absolutely only state facts. Neither draw your own conclusions nor express opinions as fact.

        – technical_difficulty
        8 hours ago













      • Unfortunately, there are people who do audio recording even face to face.

        – Monkia
        7 hours ago














      47












      47








      47







      You should. As you mentioned yourself, you would have loved it if someone had warned you about things before you went, and "do unto others as you would they do unto you" is a good maxim to live by.



      Having said that, you should also take steps to protect yourself. Talk to the student in private, and ask for confidentiality. Do it face-to-face or via telephone/Skype if you can; if you must use email, avoid using your institutional email address. You've already acknowledged you might be biased, so tell the student the facts only and don't add anything that you inferred from the facts. For example, instead of "He does not help or even provide feedback", say how many times you meet him or attempt to contact him a week. Describe how those meetings went - what did you say, what did he say, what did you do next? Try not to say "he does not help" as though it's a bad thing: it's actually possible he is expecting you to work independently for various reasons (e.g. you were so good he doesn't think you need close supervision).






      share|improve this answer















      You should. As you mentioned yourself, you would have loved it if someone had warned you about things before you went, and "do unto others as you would they do unto you" is a good maxim to live by.



      Having said that, you should also take steps to protect yourself. Talk to the student in private, and ask for confidentiality. Do it face-to-face or via telephone/Skype if you can; if you must use email, avoid using your institutional email address. You've already acknowledged you might be biased, so tell the student the facts only and don't add anything that you inferred from the facts. For example, instead of "He does not help or even provide feedback", say how many times you meet him or attempt to contact him a week. Describe how those meetings went - what did you say, what did he say, what did you do next? Try not to say "he does not help" as though it's a bad thing: it's actually possible he is expecting you to work independently for various reasons (e.g. you were so good he doesn't think you need close supervision).







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited 1 hour ago

























      answered yesterday









      AllureAllure

      33.1k19101152




      33.1k19101152








      • 23





        I'd say face-to-face only. Emails can be forwarded. Any information stored electronically can potentially be exposed.

        – Granny Aching
        16 hours ago











      • +1 If communication that leaves any kind of trail is used you should absolutely only state facts. Neither draw your own conclusions nor express opinions as fact.

        – technical_difficulty
        8 hours ago













      • Unfortunately, there are people who do audio recording even face to face.

        – Monkia
        7 hours ago














      • 23





        I'd say face-to-face only. Emails can be forwarded. Any information stored electronically can potentially be exposed.

        – Granny Aching
        16 hours ago











      • +1 If communication that leaves any kind of trail is used you should absolutely only state facts. Neither draw your own conclusions nor express opinions as fact.

        – technical_difficulty
        8 hours ago













      • Unfortunately, there are people who do audio recording even face to face.

        – Monkia
        7 hours ago








      23




      23





      I'd say face-to-face only. Emails can be forwarded. Any information stored electronically can potentially be exposed.

      – Granny Aching
      16 hours ago





      I'd say face-to-face only. Emails can be forwarded. Any information stored electronically can potentially be exposed.

      – Granny Aching
      16 hours ago













      +1 If communication that leaves any kind of trail is used you should absolutely only state facts. Neither draw your own conclusions nor express opinions as fact.

      – technical_difficulty
      8 hours ago







      +1 If communication that leaves any kind of trail is used you should absolutely only state facts. Neither draw your own conclusions nor express opinions as fact.

      – technical_difficulty
      8 hours ago















      Unfortunately, there are people who do audio recording even face to face.

      – Monkia
      7 hours ago





      Unfortunately, there are people who do audio recording even face to face.

      – Monkia
      7 hours ago











      6














      You should have to warn any prospective student, if you think you could. Me too, I wished if some one warned me before joining the toxic lab where I have been forced to leave an another student was not allowed to defend after four years, so you are saving their life and wasting years.



      Later, after looking for other labs, I found that students are afraid to tell the truth because of the sensitivity of their position, they forwarded me to alumni and others dare to speak up with me and warned me and I am so grateful for them because they saved me from the trap.



      Of course, sometimes the student is desperate and need any position as long as it is competitive and hard sometimes to find a slot. I did that although the bad feedback because I was in a desperate need for money and I took decision this is would be a temporary place.



      To sum up, there is no ideal place, however, based on the OP’s description this is a terrible supervisor, I cannot find any positive lights for any prospective student to work under him/her.



      So, I you think you are capable you can say this information is confidential and tell the truth, or if you feel that you embarrassed to say forward the student to alumni that had witnessed the experience. I stress this telling the truth is important, it is like marrying the wrong man or woman.






      share|improve this answer




























        6














        You should have to warn any prospective student, if you think you could. Me too, I wished if some one warned me before joining the toxic lab where I have been forced to leave an another student was not allowed to defend after four years, so you are saving their life and wasting years.



        Later, after looking for other labs, I found that students are afraid to tell the truth because of the sensitivity of their position, they forwarded me to alumni and others dare to speak up with me and warned me and I am so grateful for them because they saved me from the trap.



        Of course, sometimes the student is desperate and need any position as long as it is competitive and hard sometimes to find a slot. I did that although the bad feedback because I was in a desperate need for money and I took decision this is would be a temporary place.



        To sum up, there is no ideal place, however, based on the OP’s description this is a terrible supervisor, I cannot find any positive lights for any prospective student to work under him/her.



        So, I you think you are capable you can say this information is confidential and tell the truth, or if you feel that you embarrassed to say forward the student to alumni that had witnessed the experience. I stress this telling the truth is important, it is like marrying the wrong man or woman.






        share|improve this answer


























          6












          6








          6







          You should have to warn any prospective student, if you think you could. Me too, I wished if some one warned me before joining the toxic lab where I have been forced to leave an another student was not allowed to defend after four years, so you are saving their life and wasting years.



          Later, after looking for other labs, I found that students are afraid to tell the truth because of the sensitivity of their position, they forwarded me to alumni and others dare to speak up with me and warned me and I am so grateful for them because they saved me from the trap.



          Of course, sometimes the student is desperate and need any position as long as it is competitive and hard sometimes to find a slot. I did that although the bad feedback because I was in a desperate need for money and I took decision this is would be a temporary place.



          To sum up, there is no ideal place, however, based on the OP’s description this is a terrible supervisor, I cannot find any positive lights for any prospective student to work under him/her.



          So, I you think you are capable you can say this information is confidential and tell the truth, or if you feel that you embarrassed to say forward the student to alumni that had witnessed the experience. I stress this telling the truth is important, it is like marrying the wrong man or woman.






          share|improve this answer













          You should have to warn any prospective student, if you think you could. Me too, I wished if some one warned me before joining the toxic lab where I have been forced to leave an another student was not allowed to defend after four years, so you are saving their life and wasting years.



          Later, after looking for other labs, I found that students are afraid to tell the truth because of the sensitivity of their position, they forwarded me to alumni and others dare to speak up with me and warned me and I am so grateful for them because they saved me from the trap.



          Of course, sometimes the student is desperate and need any position as long as it is competitive and hard sometimes to find a slot. I did that although the bad feedback because I was in a desperate need for money and I took decision this is would be a temporary place.



          To sum up, there is no ideal place, however, based on the OP’s description this is a terrible supervisor, I cannot find any positive lights for any prospective student to work under him/her.



          So, I you think you are capable you can say this information is confidential and tell the truth, or if you feel that you embarrassed to say forward the student to alumni that had witnessed the experience. I stress this telling the truth is important, it is like marrying the wrong man or woman.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 19 hours ago









          MonkiaMonkia

          371310




          371310























              2














              I don't have PhD, because I bailed out after completing requirements for MS.



              If I go back to school, I would definitely want to know who is helpful and who is not. So I would say it is the right thing to do to warn the student.



              However, be careful, because some professors can be very vindictive, and can cause serious damage to your academic career, so:




              • talk to that student face to face

              • no electronic communication of any kind

              • no written communication either

              • try to find an opportunity where nobody can see you talking to this student

              • keep it short and factual - absolutely no venting

              • think in advance what to say, so you can be as brief as possible






              share|improve this answer








              New contributor




              Granny Aching is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.

























                2














                I don't have PhD, because I bailed out after completing requirements for MS.



                If I go back to school, I would definitely want to know who is helpful and who is not. So I would say it is the right thing to do to warn the student.



                However, be careful, because some professors can be very vindictive, and can cause serious damage to your academic career, so:




                • talk to that student face to face

                • no electronic communication of any kind

                • no written communication either

                • try to find an opportunity where nobody can see you talking to this student

                • keep it short and factual - absolutely no venting

                • think in advance what to say, so you can be as brief as possible






                share|improve this answer








                New contributor




                Granny Aching is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.























                  2












                  2








                  2







                  I don't have PhD, because I bailed out after completing requirements for MS.



                  If I go back to school, I would definitely want to know who is helpful and who is not. So I would say it is the right thing to do to warn the student.



                  However, be careful, because some professors can be very vindictive, and can cause serious damage to your academic career, so:




                  • talk to that student face to face

                  • no electronic communication of any kind

                  • no written communication either

                  • try to find an opportunity where nobody can see you talking to this student

                  • keep it short and factual - absolutely no venting

                  • think in advance what to say, so you can be as brief as possible






                  share|improve this answer








                  New contributor




                  Granny Aching is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.










                  I don't have PhD, because I bailed out after completing requirements for MS.



                  If I go back to school, I would definitely want to know who is helpful and who is not. So I would say it is the right thing to do to warn the student.



                  However, be careful, because some professors can be very vindictive, and can cause serious damage to your academic career, so:




                  • talk to that student face to face

                  • no electronic communication of any kind

                  • no written communication either

                  • try to find an opportunity where nobody can see you talking to this student

                  • keep it short and factual - absolutely no venting

                  • think in advance what to say, so you can be as brief as possible







                  share|improve this answer








                  New contributor




                  Granny Aching is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.









                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer






                  New contributor




                  Granny Aching is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.









                  answered 15 hours ago









                  Granny AchingGranny Aching

                  1212




                  1212




                  New contributor




                  Granny Aching is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.





                  New contributor





                  Granny Aching is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.






                  Granny Aching is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                  Check out our Code of Conduct.























                      0














                      First, to disqualify my opinion, I did not go through a Ph.D. program. I am far from being an Academic. I have helped friends with their Ph.D. research and had things been different I would have loved to spend years in the Academic lab. Instead, I've spent my time in corporate offices doing commercial product development.



                      Second, warning someone off is a bad thing -- especially for you. There are very few circumstances under which you can save someone else trouble, and avoid trouble yourself. The candidates you are talking to are anxious to have a slot -- almost any slot. Your warning won't put them off if they are otherwise interested, or desperate, and you will have marked yourself as someone they have material to use against later.



                      Third, don't start a palace revolt and rebel against the person in charge unless you are certain that you can bring them down, and that you benefit from the change. The new person can be worse, or the lab can be disbanded, or someone new can be appointed who just doesn't understand your work. No problem, right? Just start over. Big setback. Or, worse, you don't depose the leader. Be ready for the purge.



                      If you have unassailable evidence of sexual exploitation or severe financial malfeasance you might stand a chance. Micromanagement, gruff temper, credit-stealing, incompetence, surly disposition, bad advice, or absentee guidance -- you don't stand a chance. The institution probably already knows and yet he remains in place. You are unlikely to be the agent of change you would like to be and still preserve the work you are doing and the progress you have made.



                      Your best bet is to get out. Ideally, you get out by finishing, accepting the degree, and finding a wonderful postdoc situation. If the PI's reputation is so negative, they may drag you down even after you are finished with them. Not ideal, but perhaps better, is you find a lab where you can thrive and move there. Network with others. Reach out where other's have shown interest. You will be better losing some time and having the right, enriching experience.



                      Summarizing, I suggest that you do not attempt to dissuade the candidate from joining the lab. Not in a selfish sense, but with a sense of self-preservation, watch out for yourself and your best interests.






                      share|improve this answer



















                      • 9





                        Not sure I agree. For your point #2, students often have multiple, ~equal offers, and would appreciate the warning. The part about "marking yourself as someone they have material to use against later" seems particularly far-fetched -- it's not Hunger Games. For #3, it is possible to quietly give advice (or better yet, state facts) without trying to "take down" a professor (which I agree would be hard).

                        – cag51
                        yesterday








                      • 6





                        I feel this is horrifically bad advice. Having a corporate paycheck, you would never know how it is to be stuck after year 8 with absolutely no degree to show, little experience desirable to employers, no savings or heavy undergrad debt, and no friends around you. Unlike a job, a grad student whose stuck in a bad situation has very little out, and it's well known this leads to mental health issues. It's something you haven't seen from a stable corporate environment.

                        – user71659
                        yesterday








                      • 4





                        Good candidates have multiple slots. Candidates may also be accepted by the school and have multiple advisor options. My lab's had an offer acceptance rate of about 40% in the last 5 years. I had 3 offers going into grad school and 3 for a postdoc.

                        – user71659
                        yesterday








                      • 4





                        I don’t agree with this answer at all.

                        – Monkia
                        19 hours ago






                      • 2





                        It is interesting how strongly others disagree with this position. I can only assume that academic humans are fundamentally different from high- tech startup humans. One may not be 8 years in with no degree, but one can be years in with invested stock options, no money to exercise, and nowhere to go. I have had my attempt to help someone be used against me (#2). For #3, in the long term, nothing is quiet, and everything you say is eventually heard exact where it will hurt you the most. Sounds paranoid, is a bit hyperbolic, but is true.

                        – cmm
                        15 hours ago
















                      0














                      First, to disqualify my opinion, I did not go through a Ph.D. program. I am far from being an Academic. I have helped friends with their Ph.D. research and had things been different I would have loved to spend years in the Academic lab. Instead, I've spent my time in corporate offices doing commercial product development.



                      Second, warning someone off is a bad thing -- especially for you. There are very few circumstances under which you can save someone else trouble, and avoid trouble yourself. The candidates you are talking to are anxious to have a slot -- almost any slot. Your warning won't put them off if they are otherwise interested, or desperate, and you will have marked yourself as someone they have material to use against later.



                      Third, don't start a palace revolt and rebel against the person in charge unless you are certain that you can bring them down, and that you benefit from the change. The new person can be worse, or the lab can be disbanded, or someone new can be appointed who just doesn't understand your work. No problem, right? Just start over. Big setback. Or, worse, you don't depose the leader. Be ready for the purge.



                      If you have unassailable evidence of sexual exploitation or severe financial malfeasance you might stand a chance. Micromanagement, gruff temper, credit-stealing, incompetence, surly disposition, bad advice, or absentee guidance -- you don't stand a chance. The institution probably already knows and yet he remains in place. You are unlikely to be the agent of change you would like to be and still preserve the work you are doing and the progress you have made.



                      Your best bet is to get out. Ideally, you get out by finishing, accepting the degree, and finding a wonderful postdoc situation. If the PI's reputation is so negative, they may drag you down even after you are finished with them. Not ideal, but perhaps better, is you find a lab where you can thrive and move there. Network with others. Reach out where other's have shown interest. You will be better losing some time and having the right, enriching experience.



                      Summarizing, I suggest that you do not attempt to dissuade the candidate from joining the lab. Not in a selfish sense, but with a sense of self-preservation, watch out for yourself and your best interests.






                      share|improve this answer



















                      • 9





                        Not sure I agree. For your point #2, students often have multiple, ~equal offers, and would appreciate the warning. The part about "marking yourself as someone they have material to use against later" seems particularly far-fetched -- it's not Hunger Games. For #3, it is possible to quietly give advice (or better yet, state facts) without trying to "take down" a professor (which I agree would be hard).

                        – cag51
                        yesterday








                      • 6





                        I feel this is horrifically bad advice. Having a corporate paycheck, you would never know how it is to be stuck after year 8 with absolutely no degree to show, little experience desirable to employers, no savings or heavy undergrad debt, and no friends around you. Unlike a job, a grad student whose stuck in a bad situation has very little out, and it's well known this leads to mental health issues. It's something you haven't seen from a stable corporate environment.

                        – user71659
                        yesterday








                      • 4





                        Good candidates have multiple slots. Candidates may also be accepted by the school and have multiple advisor options. My lab's had an offer acceptance rate of about 40% in the last 5 years. I had 3 offers going into grad school and 3 for a postdoc.

                        – user71659
                        yesterday








                      • 4





                        I don’t agree with this answer at all.

                        – Monkia
                        19 hours ago






                      • 2





                        It is interesting how strongly others disagree with this position. I can only assume that academic humans are fundamentally different from high- tech startup humans. One may not be 8 years in with no degree, but one can be years in with invested stock options, no money to exercise, and nowhere to go. I have had my attempt to help someone be used against me (#2). For #3, in the long term, nothing is quiet, and everything you say is eventually heard exact where it will hurt you the most. Sounds paranoid, is a bit hyperbolic, but is true.

                        – cmm
                        15 hours ago














                      0












                      0








                      0







                      First, to disqualify my opinion, I did not go through a Ph.D. program. I am far from being an Academic. I have helped friends with their Ph.D. research and had things been different I would have loved to spend years in the Academic lab. Instead, I've spent my time in corporate offices doing commercial product development.



                      Second, warning someone off is a bad thing -- especially for you. There are very few circumstances under which you can save someone else trouble, and avoid trouble yourself. The candidates you are talking to are anxious to have a slot -- almost any slot. Your warning won't put them off if they are otherwise interested, or desperate, and you will have marked yourself as someone they have material to use against later.



                      Third, don't start a palace revolt and rebel against the person in charge unless you are certain that you can bring them down, and that you benefit from the change. The new person can be worse, or the lab can be disbanded, or someone new can be appointed who just doesn't understand your work. No problem, right? Just start over. Big setback. Or, worse, you don't depose the leader. Be ready for the purge.



                      If you have unassailable evidence of sexual exploitation or severe financial malfeasance you might stand a chance. Micromanagement, gruff temper, credit-stealing, incompetence, surly disposition, bad advice, or absentee guidance -- you don't stand a chance. The institution probably already knows and yet he remains in place. You are unlikely to be the agent of change you would like to be and still preserve the work you are doing and the progress you have made.



                      Your best bet is to get out. Ideally, you get out by finishing, accepting the degree, and finding a wonderful postdoc situation. If the PI's reputation is so negative, they may drag you down even after you are finished with them. Not ideal, but perhaps better, is you find a lab where you can thrive and move there. Network with others. Reach out where other's have shown interest. You will be better losing some time and having the right, enriching experience.



                      Summarizing, I suggest that you do not attempt to dissuade the candidate from joining the lab. Not in a selfish sense, but with a sense of self-preservation, watch out for yourself and your best interests.






                      share|improve this answer













                      First, to disqualify my opinion, I did not go through a Ph.D. program. I am far from being an Academic. I have helped friends with their Ph.D. research and had things been different I would have loved to spend years in the Academic lab. Instead, I've spent my time in corporate offices doing commercial product development.



                      Second, warning someone off is a bad thing -- especially for you. There are very few circumstances under which you can save someone else trouble, and avoid trouble yourself. The candidates you are talking to are anxious to have a slot -- almost any slot. Your warning won't put them off if they are otherwise interested, or desperate, and you will have marked yourself as someone they have material to use against later.



                      Third, don't start a palace revolt and rebel against the person in charge unless you are certain that you can bring them down, and that you benefit from the change. The new person can be worse, or the lab can be disbanded, or someone new can be appointed who just doesn't understand your work. No problem, right? Just start over. Big setback. Or, worse, you don't depose the leader. Be ready for the purge.



                      If you have unassailable evidence of sexual exploitation or severe financial malfeasance you might stand a chance. Micromanagement, gruff temper, credit-stealing, incompetence, surly disposition, bad advice, or absentee guidance -- you don't stand a chance. The institution probably already knows and yet he remains in place. You are unlikely to be the agent of change you would like to be and still preserve the work you are doing and the progress you have made.



                      Your best bet is to get out. Ideally, you get out by finishing, accepting the degree, and finding a wonderful postdoc situation. If the PI's reputation is so negative, they may drag you down even after you are finished with them. Not ideal, but perhaps better, is you find a lab where you can thrive and move there. Network with others. Reach out where other's have shown interest. You will be better losing some time and having the right, enriching experience.



                      Summarizing, I suggest that you do not attempt to dissuade the candidate from joining the lab. Not in a selfish sense, but with a sense of self-preservation, watch out for yourself and your best interests.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered yesterday









                      cmmcmm

                      34315




                      34315








                      • 9





                        Not sure I agree. For your point #2, students often have multiple, ~equal offers, and would appreciate the warning. The part about "marking yourself as someone they have material to use against later" seems particularly far-fetched -- it's not Hunger Games. For #3, it is possible to quietly give advice (or better yet, state facts) without trying to "take down" a professor (which I agree would be hard).

                        – cag51
                        yesterday








                      • 6





                        I feel this is horrifically bad advice. Having a corporate paycheck, you would never know how it is to be stuck after year 8 with absolutely no degree to show, little experience desirable to employers, no savings or heavy undergrad debt, and no friends around you. Unlike a job, a grad student whose stuck in a bad situation has very little out, and it's well known this leads to mental health issues. It's something you haven't seen from a stable corporate environment.

                        – user71659
                        yesterday








                      • 4





                        Good candidates have multiple slots. Candidates may also be accepted by the school and have multiple advisor options. My lab's had an offer acceptance rate of about 40% in the last 5 years. I had 3 offers going into grad school and 3 for a postdoc.

                        – user71659
                        yesterday








                      • 4





                        I don’t agree with this answer at all.

                        – Monkia
                        19 hours ago






                      • 2





                        It is interesting how strongly others disagree with this position. I can only assume that academic humans are fundamentally different from high- tech startup humans. One may not be 8 years in with no degree, but one can be years in with invested stock options, no money to exercise, and nowhere to go. I have had my attempt to help someone be used against me (#2). For #3, in the long term, nothing is quiet, and everything you say is eventually heard exact where it will hurt you the most. Sounds paranoid, is a bit hyperbolic, but is true.

                        – cmm
                        15 hours ago














                      • 9





                        Not sure I agree. For your point #2, students often have multiple, ~equal offers, and would appreciate the warning. The part about "marking yourself as someone they have material to use against later" seems particularly far-fetched -- it's not Hunger Games. For #3, it is possible to quietly give advice (or better yet, state facts) without trying to "take down" a professor (which I agree would be hard).

                        – cag51
                        yesterday








                      • 6





                        I feel this is horrifically bad advice. Having a corporate paycheck, you would never know how it is to be stuck after year 8 with absolutely no degree to show, little experience desirable to employers, no savings or heavy undergrad debt, and no friends around you. Unlike a job, a grad student whose stuck in a bad situation has very little out, and it's well known this leads to mental health issues. It's something you haven't seen from a stable corporate environment.

                        – user71659
                        yesterday








                      • 4





                        Good candidates have multiple slots. Candidates may also be accepted by the school and have multiple advisor options. My lab's had an offer acceptance rate of about 40% in the last 5 years. I had 3 offers going into grad school and 3 for a postdoc.

                        – user71659
                        yesterday








                      • 4





                        I don’t agree with this answer at all.

                        – Monkia
                        19 hours ago






                      • 2





                        It is interesting how strongly others disagree with this position. I can only assume that academic humans are fundamentally different from high- tech startup humans. One may not be 8 years in with no degree, but one can be years in with invested stock options, no money to exercise, and nowhere to go. I have had my attempt to help someone be used against me (#2). For #3, in the long term, nothing is quiet, and everything you say is eventually heard exact where it will hurt you the most. Sounds paranoid, is a bit hyperbolic, but is true.

                        – cmm
                        15 hours ago








                      9




                      9





                      Not sure I agree. For your point #2, students often have multiple, ~equal offers, and would appreciate the warning. The part about "marking yourself as someone they have material to use against later" seems particularly far-fetched -- it's not Hunger Games. For #3, it is possible to quietly give advice (or better yet, state facts) without trying to "take down" a professor (which I agree would be hard).

                      – cag51
                      yesterday







                      Not sure I agree. For your point #2, students often have multiple, ~equal offers, and would appreciate the warning. The part about "marking yourself as someone they have material to use against later" seems particularly far-fetched -- it's not Hunger Games. For #3, it is possible to quietly give advice (or better yet, state facts) without trying to "take down" a professor (which I agree would be hard).

                      – cag51
                      yesterday






                      6




                      6





                      I feel this is horrifically bad advice. Having a corporate paycheck, you would never know how it is to be stuck after year 8 with absolutely no degree to show, little experience desirable to employers, no savings or heavy undergrad debt, and no friends around you. Unlike a job, a grad student whose stuck in a bad situation has very little out, and it's well known this leads to mental health issues. It's something you haven't seen from a stable corporate environment.

                      – user71659
                      yesterday







                      I feel this is horrifically bad advice. Having a corporate paycheck, you would never know how it is to be stuck after year 8 with absolutely no degree to show, little experience desirable to employers, no savings or heavy undergrad debt, and no friends around you. Unlike a job, a grad student whose stuck in a bad situation has very little out, and it's well known this leads to mental health issues. It's something you haven't seen from a stable corporate environment.

                      – user71659
                      yesterday






                      4




                      4





                      Good candidates have multiple slots. Candidates may also be accepted by the school and have multiple advisor options. My lab's had an offer acceptance rate of about 40% in the last 5 years. I had 3 offers going into grad school and 3 for a postdoc.

                      – user71659
                      yesterday







                      Good candidates have multiple slots. Candidates may also be accepted by the school and have multiple advisor options. My lab's had an offer acceptance rate of about 40% in the last 5 years. I had 3 offers going into grad school and 3 for a postdoc.

                      – user71659
                      yesterday






                      4




                      4





                      I don’t agree with this answer at all.

                      – Monkia
                      19 hours ago





                      I don’t agree with this answer at all.

                      – Monkia
                      19 hours ago




                      2




                      2





                      It is interesting how strongly others disagree with this position. I can only assume that academic humans are fundamentally different from high- tech startup humans. One may not be 8 years in with no degree, but one can be years in with invested stock options, no money to exercise, and nowhere to go. I have had my attempt to help someone be used against me (#2). For #3, in the long term, nothing is quiet, and everything you say is eventually heard exact where it will hurt you the most. Sounds paranoid, is a bit hyperbolic, but is true.

                      – cmm
                      15 hours ago





                      It is interesting how strongly others disagree with this position. I can only assume that academic humans are fundamentally different from high- tech startup humans. One may not be 8 years in with no degree, but one can be years in with invested stock options, no money to exercise, and nowhere to go. I have had my attempt to help someone be used against me (#2). For #3, in the long term, nothing is quiet, and everything you say is eventually heard exact where it will hurt you the most. Sounds paranoid, is a bit hyperbolic, but is true.

                      – cmm
                      15 hours ago










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