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How did Ancient Greek 'πυρ' become English 'fire?'
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fire is derived from the Ancient Greek πυρ. My question is: how did the plosive become a fricative?
I believe pyre is also derived from πυρ; why is it that pyre didn't also undergo this "fricativisation"?
phonology phonetics greek fricatives plosives
asked 10 hours ago
daisydaisy
1364
add a comment |
fire is derived from the Ancient Greek πυρ. My question is: how did the plosive become a fricative?
I believe pyre is also derived from πυρ; why is it that pyre didn't also undergo this "fricativisation"?
phonology phonetics greek fricatives plosives
asked 10 hours ago
daisydaisy
1364
add a comment |
fire is derived from the Ancient Greek πυρ. My question is: how did the plosive become a fricative?
I believe pyre is also derived from πυρ; why is it that pyre didn't also undergo this "fricativisation"?
phonology phonetics greek fricatives plosives
asked 10 hours ago
daisydaisy
1364
fire is derived from the Ancient Greek πυρ. My question is: how did the plosive become a fricative?
I believe pyre is also derived from πυρ; why is it that pyre didn't also undergo this "fricativisation"?
phonology phonetics greek fricatives plosives
phonology phonetics greek fricatives plosives
asked 10 hours ago
daisydaisy
1364
asked 10 hours ago
daisydaisy
1364
edited 4 mins ago
daisy
asked 10 hours ago
daisydaisy
1364
asked 10 hours ago
daisydaisy
1364
asked 10 hours ago
daisydaisy
1364
1364
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
English fire is not derived from Greek πυρ.
Both fire and πυρ come originally from the Proto-Indo-European root *paəwr̥.
Greek simplified the vowel sequence /aəw/ to /ū/, but kept the consonants.
Proto-Germanic was *fūr, similar to Greek, but all Germanic voiceless stops
became homorganic fricatives as part of Grimm's Law.
Modern English fire comes from Old English fȳr, which was produced by fronting the Proto-Germanic
ū to ȳ, a natural process called "Umlaut", which is very common in Germanic languages.
answered 10 hours ago
jlawlerjlawler
7,79612139
add a comment |
As jlawer says, English "fire" doesn't actually come from Greek pŷr. "Pyre" does, but that's a borrowing (via Latin), and it's pretty clear how it happened.
One of the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European (last common ancestor of English and Greek) words for "fire" looked something like *peh₂-wr̥. The *h₂ was probably a velar fricative, like in "loch", but there's not a strong consensus on that part.
In Ancient Greek, the *eh₂w in the middle simplified to give something like *pūr; then the /u/ fronted to /y/, and a bit of tone funkiness happened, giving pŷr.
In Germanic (the branch of Indo-European containing English), a process called "Grimm's Law" happened, which changed voiceless stops (p, t, k) at the beginning of words into fricatives (f, th, h).
The vowel in the middle went through some strangeness involving a collective form, but the branch that would become English eventually simplified it into something like *fuir; the ui merged into ȳ, which English then turned into ī. Spelling conventions then turned fīr into fire, and the Great Vowel Shift gave it its modern pronunciation.
answered 7 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
11.2k11948
It can be added that Hittite has the word pahhur "fire", that bolsters the reconstruction *peh2-wr for the original proto-language.
– Arnaud Fournet
12 mins ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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active
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active
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active
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English fire is not derived from Greek πυρ.
Both fire and πυρ come originally from the Proto-Indo-European root *paəwr̥.
Greek simplified the vowel sequence /aəw/ to /ū/, but kept the consonants.
Proto-Germanic was *fūr, similar to Greek, but all Germanic voiceless stops
became homorganic fricatives as part of Grimm's Law.
Modern English fire comes from Old English fȳr, which was produced by fronting the Proto-Germanic
ū to ȳ, a natural process called "Umlaut", which is very common in Germanic languages.
answered 10 hours ago
jlawlerjlawler
7,79612139
add a comment |
English fire is not derived from Greek πυρ.
Both fire and πυρ come originally from the Proto-Indo-European root *paəwr̥.
Greek simplified the vowel sequence /aəw/ to /ū/, but kept the consonants.
Proto-Germanic was *fūr, similar to Greek, but all Germanic voiceless stops
became homorganic fricatives as part of Grimm's Law.
Modern English fire comes from Old English fȳr, which was produced by fronting the Proto-Germanic
ū to ȳ, a natural process called "Umlaut", which is very common in Germanic languages.
answered 10 hours ago
jlawlerjlawler
7,79612139
add a comment |
English fire is not derived from Greek πυρ.
Both fire and πυρ come originally from the Proto-Indo-European root *paəwr̥.
Greek simplified the vowel sequence /aəw/ to /ū/, but kept the consonants.
Proto-Germanic was *fūr, similar to Greek, but all Germanic voiceless stops
became homorganic fricatives as part of Grimm's Law.
Modern English fire comes from Old English fȳr, which was produced by fronting the Proto-Germanic
ū to ȳ, a natural process called "Umlaut", which is very common in Germanic languages.
answered 10 hours ago
jlawlerjlawler
7,79612139
English fire is not derived from Greek πυρ.
Both fire and πυρ come originally from the Proto-Indo-European root *paəwr̥.
Greek simplified the vowel sequence /aəw/ to /ū/, but kept the consonants.
Proto-Germanic was *fūr, similar to Greek, but all Germanic voiceless stops
became homorganic fricatives as part of Grimm's Law.
Modern English fire comes from Old English fȳr, which was produced by fronting the Proto-Germanic
ū to ȳ, a natural process called "Umlaut", which is very common in Germanic languages.
answered 10 hours ago
jlawlerjlawler
7,79612139
answered 10 hours ago
jlawlerjlawler
7,79612139
answered 10 hours ago
jlawlerjlawler
7,79612139
answered 10 hours ago
jlawlerjlawler
7,79612139
7,79612139
add a comment |
add a comment |
As jlawer says, English "fire" doesn't actually come from Greek pŷr. "Pyre" does, but that's a borrowing (via Latin), and it's pretty clear how it happened.
One of the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European (last common ancestor of English and Greek) words for "fire" looked something like *peh₂-wr̥. The *h₂ was probably a velar fricative, like in "loch", but there's not a strong consensus on that part.
In Ancient Greek, the *eh₂w in the middle simplified to give something like *pūr; then the /u/ fronted to /y/, and a bit of tone funkiness happened, giving pŷr.
In Germanic (the branch of Indo-European containing English), a process called "Grimm's Law" happened, which changed voiceless stops (p, t, k) at the beginning of words into fricatives (f, th, h).
The vowel in the middle went through some strangeness involving a collective form, but the branch that would become English eventually simplified it into something like *fuir; the ui merged into ȳ, which English then turned into ī. Spelling conventions then turned fīr into fire, and the Great Vowel Shift gave it its modern pronunciation.
answered 7 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
11.2k11948
It can be added that Hittite has the word pahhur "fire", that bolsters the reconstruction *peh2-wr for the original proto-language.
– Arnaud Fournet
12 mins ago
add a comment |
As jlawer says, English "fire" doesn't actually come from Greek pŷr. "Pyre" does, but that's a borrowing (via Latin), and it's pretty clear how it happened.
One of the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European (last common ancestor of English and Greek) words for "fire" looked something like *peh₂-wr̥. The *h₂ was probably a velar fricative, like in "loch", but there's not a strong consensus on that part.
In Ancient Greek, the *eh₂w in the middle simplified to give something like *pūr; then the /u/ fronted to /y/, and a bit of tone funkiness happened, giving pŷr.
In Germanic (the branch of Indo-European containing English), a process called "Grimm's Law" happened, which changed voiceless stops (p, t, k) at the beginning of words into fricatives (f, th, h).
The vowel in the middle went through some strangeness involving a collective form, but the branch that would become English eventually simplified it into something like *fuir; the ui merged into ȳ, which English then turned into ī. Spelling conventions then turned fīr into fire, and the Great Vowel Shift gave it its modern pronunciation.
answered 7 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
11.2k11948
It can be added that Hittite has the word pahhur "fire", that bolsters the reconstruction *peh2-wr for the original proto-language.
– Arnaud Fournet
12 mins ago
add a comment |
As jlawer says, English "fire" doesn't actually come from Greek pŷr. "Pyre" does, but that's a borrowing (via Latin), and it's pretty clear how it happened.
One of the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European (last common ancestor of English and Greek) words for "fire" looked something like *peh₂-wr̥. The *h₂ was probably a velar fricative, like in "loch", but there's not a strong consensus on that part.
In Ancient Greek, the *eh₂w in the middle simplified to give something like *pūr; then the /u/ fronted to /y/, and a bit of tone funkiness happened, giving pŷr.
In Germanic (the branch of Indo-European containing English), a process called "Grimm's Law" happened, which changed voiceless stops (p, t, k) at the beginning of words into fricatives (f, th, h).
The vowel in the middle went through some strangeness involving a collective form, but the branch that would become English eventually simplified it into something like *fuir; the ui merged into ȳ, which English then turned into ī. Spelling conventions then turned fīr into fire, and the Great Vowel Shift gave it its modern pronunciation.
answered 7 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
11.2k11948
As jlawer says, English "fire" doesn't actually come from Greek pŷr. "Pyre" does, but that's a borrowing (via Latin), and it's pretty clear how it happened.
One of the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European (last common ancestor of English and Greek) words for "fire" looked something like *peh₂-wr̥. The *h₂ was probably a velar fricative, like in "loch", but there's not a strong consensus on that part.
In Ancient Greek, the *eh₂w in the middle simplified to give something like *pūr; then the /u/ fronted to /y/, and a bit of tone funkiness happened, giving pŷr.
In Germanic (the branch of Indo-European containing English), a process called "Grimm's Law" happened, which changed voiceless stops (p, t, k) at the beginning of words into fricatives (f, th, h).
The vowel in the middle went through some strangeness involving a collective form, but the branch that would become English eventually simplified it into something like *fuir; the ui merged into ȳ, which English then turned into ī. Spelling conventions then turned fīr into fire, and the Great Vowel Shift gave it its modern pronunciation.
answered 7 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
11.2k11948
answered 7 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
11.2k11948
answered 7 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
11.2k11948
answered 7 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
11.2k11948
11.2k11948
It can be added that Hittite has the word pahhur "fire", that bolsters the reconstruction *peh2-wr for the original proto-language.
– Arnaud Fournet
12 mins ago
add a comment |
It can be added that Hittite has the word pahhur "fire", that bolsters the reconstruction *peh2-wr for the original proto-language.
– Arnaud Fournet
12 mins ago
It can be added that Hittite has the word pahhur "fire", that bolsters the reconstruction *peh2-wr for the original proto-language.
– Arnaud Fournet
12 mins ago
It can be added that Hittite has the word pahhur "fire", that bolsters the reconstruction *peh2-wr for the original proto-language.
– Arnaud Fournet
12 mins ago
add a comment |
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