Can you use the Shield Master feat to shove someone before you make an attack by using a Readied action? ...

Is it fair for a professor to grade us on the possession of past papers?

Do wooden building fires get hotter than 600°C?

Denied boarding although I have proper visa and documentation. To whom should I make a complaint?

Wu formula for manifolds with boundary

Do I really need to have a message in a novel to appeal to readers?

Is there any way for the UK Prime Minister to make a motion directly dependent on Government confidence?

How to find all the available tools in mac terminal?

Integration Help

What is homebrew?

How does the math work when buying airline miles?

Can melee weapons be used to deliver Contact Poisons?

How do pianists reach extremely loud dynamics?

Is there a kind of relay only consumes power when switching?

How to answer "Have you ever been terminated?"

2001: A Space Odyssey's use of the song "Daisy Bell" (Bicycle Built for Two); life imitates art or vice-versa?

Fundamental Solution of the Pell Equation

Is "Reachable Object" really an NP-complete problem?

Can a new player join a group only when a new campaign starts?

Is there such thing as an Availability Group failover trigger?

Why aren't air breathing engines used as small first stages

Is it cost-effective to upgrade an old-ish Giant Escape R3 commuter bike with entry-level branded parts (wheels, drivetrain)?

Generate an RGB colour grid

Fantasy story; one type of magic grows in power with use, but the more powerful they are, they more they are drawn to travel to their source

Would "destroying" Wurmcoil Engine prevent its tokens from being created?



Can you use the Shield Master feat to shove someone before you make an attack by using a Readied action?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Shield Master - Can the shield push be taken before an attack?Can you move before using the bonus attack from the Great Weapon Master feat?Shield Master - Can the shield push be taken before an attack?Does the Animated Shield count as wielded by me for the Shield Master Feat?Can you take a readied action in the middle of another character's action?With Polearm Mastery and Shield Mastery, can I attack an approaching monster, shove it with my shield, and get a second attack, all on its turn?Is the Shield Master shove the same as normal shoving other than the action timing?What happens if you can't use the action that allowed for your bonus action?Can you shove (Attack Action), attack (Extra Attack) and use Polearm Master's bonus action attack?Can the Shield Master feat's bonus-action shove be used to make an improvised weapon attack?If you have the Extra Attack feature, can you attack once, then ready your second attack as a grapple/shove?





.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}







4












$begingroup$


Can you perform a Ready action with the condition being that you complete your bonus action, then do your bonus action, and then complete your readied action?



For instance, say I have the Shield Master feat. I Ready the Attack action with the condition that the enemy is prone, then I take the bonus-action shove from Shield Master and knock him prone before I take my readied Attack action.



Is this a legal exploit to reverse the action order?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Amethyst Wizard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    Related: Shield Master - Can the shield push be taken before an attack?
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    1 hour ago


















4












$begingroup$


Can you perform a Ready action with the condition being that you complete your bonus action, then do your bonus action, and then complete your readied action?



For instance, say I have the Shield Master feat. I Ready the Attack action with the condition that the enemy is prone, then I take the bonus-action shove from Shield Master and knock him prone before I take my readied Attack action.



Is this a legal exploit to reverse the action order?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Amethyst Wizard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    Related: Shield Master - Can the shield push be taken before an attack?
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    1 hour ago














4












4








4


2



$begingroup$


Can you perform a Ready action with the condition being that you complete your bonus action, then do your bonus action, and then complete your readied action?



For instance, say I have the Shield Master feat. I Ready the Attack action with the condition that the enemy is prone, then I take the bonus-action shove from Shield Master and knock him prone before I take my readied Attack action.



Is this a legal exploit to reverse the action order?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Amethyst Wizard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




Can you perform a Ready action with the condition being that you complete your bonus action, then do your bonus action, and then complete your readied action?



For instance, say I have the Shield Master feat. I Ready the Attack action with the condition that the enemy is prone, then I take the bonus-action shove from Shield Master and knock him prone before I take my readied Attack action.



Is this a legal exploit to reverse the action order?







dnd-5e feats actions attack readied-action






share|improve this question









New contributor




Amethyst Wizard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




Amethyst Wizard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 1 hour ago









V2Blast

27.5k597167




27.5k597167






New contributor




Amethyst Wizard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 6 hours ago









Amethyst WizardAmethyst Wizard

336




336




New contributor




Amethyst Wizard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Amethyst Wizard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Amethyst Wizard is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    Related: Shield Master - Can the shield push be taken before an attack?
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    1 hour ago


















  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    Related: Shield Master - Can the shield push be taken before an attack?
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    1 hour ago
















$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
1 hour ago












$begingroup$
Related: Shield Master - Can the shield push be taken before an attack?
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
Related: Shield Master - Can the shield push be taken before an attack?
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
1 hour ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















16












$begingroup$

No, your Shield Master example won't work



Shield Master says:




If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield.




If you take the Ready Action you are not taking the Attack action, even if you use it to attack.




you can take the Ready action on your turn, which lets you act using your reaction before the start of your next turn.




Only once the trigger occurs and your attack completes are you counted as having taken the Attack action.



Since you don't take the Attack action, you do not get a bonus action shove. Since you don't get a bonus action shove, you won't be able to trigger your Readied action.



So in the end, attempting this only results in a wasted action. It is still a valid way to phrase the Ready action, it will just always result in no trigger happening (unless the enemy becomes prone and right next to you still for some other reason before your next turn).



In general, you can use the results of a bonus action as a trigger for a Ready action



Though the above example didn't work, there is no reason that you cannot use the results of a bonus action to trigger a Ready action. For example, you can have say after "I cast this bonus action spell, do X" or "after I take my bonus action attack, do X". As long as you are able to do the bonus action in the first place (unlike with the Shield Master bonus action) and you can perceive it, then you can use it as a trigger.



Note that you can't just set a trigger off of "when I use my bonus action" because bonus actions are not a thing in-universe and thus it is not perceivable. The results or actual actions done with the bonus action are of course valid as described above.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Aside from this, failing to knock them prone would result in never triggering the held action, never getting the bonus action shove, and thus never being able to try to knock them prone to begin with. Naturally this would destroy the space-time continuum of their campaign world.
    $endgroup$
    – Benjamin Olson
    6 hours ago



















4












$begingroup$

You are asking two different questions here.



Your first question is:




Can you perform a ready action with the condition being that you complete your bonus action, then you do your bonus action and then complete your action from your ready action?




And the answer is that yes, you can do that. However, you don't really get any benefit from that, since any bonus action you could take to trigger the action must be a bonus action you could take anyway. You're just as well off not readying an action, using your bonus action, and then just taking a normal action.



Your second question is:




Isn't this legal exploit to reverse the action order?




The Shield Master feat says:




If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield.




Though you could ready an action to trigger off of the "try to shove... with your shield" bonus action, you would never actually get to use that reaction and will have effectively wasted your action.



The important text is "If you take the Attack action on your turn...". The Attack action is distinct from an attack and from a regular action. If you've readied an action, even if your readied action is to take the Attack action, then you still haven't taken the Attack action. Since you don't actually take the Attack action, your bonus action of "shove... with your shield" never takes place during your turn.



In this scenario, you do still get to attack if, after readying that action, an opponent somehow ends up both adjacent and prone to you. However, you will still lose the shield shove bonus action if this happens outside your turn.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    0












    $begingroup$

    While your particular example won't work due to Shield Master's bash requiring the Attack action be taken first, you can indeed have a readied action trigger on your own turn off of an (otherwise valid) bonus action. Your reaction is available from the beginning of your turn, meaning you can trigger it before your turn is over.



    The only limitation on readied action triggers is that they must be "perceivable circumstance[s]", there's nothing in that barring your bonus action from being the trigger.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$





















      -1












      $begingroup$

      It Could Destroy the Universe



      This is a little like the time travel paradox of what would happen if a person traveling back in time caused themselves to never have traveled back in time in the first place.



      Even if the Attack action were not distinct from a Ready action resulting in taking the Attack action, you would have a conundrum. The bonus actions made available by taking the attack action require it actually be taken. You would never be able to use the bonus action in the first place if the circumstances for the readied action fail to trigger.



      In your example, failing to knock the enemy prone would result in never triggering the readied action, never getting the bonus action shove, and thus never being able to try to knock them prone to begin with. Naturally this would destroy the space-time continuum of your campaign world.



      And yes, that's an absurd way of putting it, but the mechanical issue stands none the less. Things can't be used to trigger their own prerequisites unless success is absolutely certain.



      It may well be that the logic of a bonus action not being able to come before an attack it depends on is based in a less convoluted version of its own logic. It is always possible that you will not actually take the prerequisite attack. If this is the case then this proposed exploit is just a roundabout way to get to the exact same original problem.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$














        Your Answer








        StackExchange.ready(function() {
        var channelOptions = {
        tags: "".split(" "),
        id: "122"
        };
        initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

        StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
        // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
        if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
        StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
        createEditor();
        });
        }
        else {
        createEditor();
        }
        });

        function createEditor() {
        StackExchange.prepareEditor({
        heartbeatType: 'answer',
        autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
        convertImagesToLinks: false,
        noModals: true,
        showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
        reputationToPostImages: null,
        bindNavPrevention: true,
        postfix: "",
        imageUploader: {
        brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
        contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
        allowUrls: true
        },
        noCode: true, onDemand: true,
        discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
        ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
        });


        }
        });






        Amethyst Wizard is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










        draft saved

        draft discarded


















        StackExchange.ready(
        function () {
        StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f145382%2fcan-you-use-the-shield-master-feat-to-shove-someone-before-you-make-an-attack-by%23new-answer', 'question_page');
        }
        );

        Post as a guest















        Required, but never shown

























        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes








        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        16












        $begingroup$

        No, your Shield Master example won't work



        Shield Master says:




        If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield.




        If you take the Ready Action you are not taking the Attack action, even if you use it to attack.




        you can take the Ready action on your turn, which lets you act using your reaction before the start of your next turn.




        Only once the trigger occurs and your attack completes are you counted as having taken the Attack action.



        Since you don't take the Attack action, you do not get a bonus action shove. Since you don't get a bonus action shove, you won't be able to trigger your Readied action.



        So in the end, attempting this only results in a wasted action. It is still a valid way to phrase the Ready action, it will just always result in no trigger happening (unless the enemy becomes prone and right next to you still for some other reason before your next turn).



        In general, you can use the results of a bonus action as a trigger for a Ready action



        Though the above example didn't work, there is no reason that you cannot use the results of a bonus action to trigger a Ready action. For example, you can have say after "I cast this bonus action spell, do X" or "after I take my bonus action attack, do X". As long as you are able to do the bonus action in the first place (unlike with the Shield Master bonus action) and you can perceive it, then you can use it as a trigger.



        Note that you can't just set a trigger off of "when I use my bonus action" because bonus actions are not a thing in-universe and thus it is not perceivable. The results or actual actions done with the bonus action are of course valid as described above.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$









        • 1




          $begingroup$
          Aside from this, failing to knock them prone would result in never triggering the held action, never getting the bonus action shove, and thus never being able to try to knock them prone to begin with. Naturally this would destroy the space-time continuum of their campaign world.
          $endgroup$
          – Benjamin Olson
          6 hours ago
















        16












        $begingroup$

        No, your Shield Master example won't work



        Shield Master says:




        If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield.




        If you take the Ready Action you are not taking the Attack action, even if you use it to attack.




        you can take the Ready action on your turn, which lets you act using your reaction before the start of your next turn.




        Only once the trigger occurs and your attack completes are you counted as having taken the Attack action.



        Since you don't take the Attack action, you do not get a bonus action shove. Since you don't get a bonus action shove, you won't be able to trigger your Readied action.



        So in the end, attempting this only results in a wasted action. It is still a valid way to phrase the Ready action, it will just always result in no trigger happening (unless the enemy becomes prone and right next to you still for some other reason before your next turn).



        In general, you can use the results of a bonus action as a trigger for a Ready action



        Though the above example didn't work, there is no reason that you cannot use the results of a bonus action to trigger a Ready action. For example, you can have say after "I cast this bonus action spell, do X" or "after I take my bonus action attack, do X". As long as you are able to do the bonus action in the first place (unlike with the Shield Master bonus action) and you can perceive it, then you can use it as a trigger.



        Note that you can't just set a trigger off of "when I use my bonus action" because bonus actions are not a thing in-universe and thus it is not perceivable. The results or actual actions done with the bonus action are of course valid as described above.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$









        • 1




          $begingroup$
          Aside from this, failing to knock them prone would result in never triggering the held action, never getting the bonus action shove, and thus never being able to try to knock them prone to begin with. Naturally this would destroy the space-time continuum of their campaign world.
          $endgroup$
          – Benjamin Olson
          6 hours ago














        16












        16








        16





        $begingroup$

        No, your Shield Master example won't work



        Shield Master says:




        If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield.




        If you take the Ready Action you are not taking the Attack action, even if you use it to attack.




        you can take the Ready action on your turn, which lets you act using your reaction before the start of your next turn.




        Only once the trigger occurs and your attack completes are you counted as having taken the Attack action.



        Since you don't take the Attack action, you do not get a bonus action shove. Since you don't get a bonus action shove, you won't be able to trigger your Readied action.



        So in the end, attempting this only results in a wasted action. It is still a valid way to phrase the Ready action, it will just always result in no trigger happening (unless the enemy becomes prone and right next to you still for some other reason before your next turn).



        In general, you can use the results of a bonus action as a trigger for a Ready action



        Though the above example didn't work, there is no reason that you cannot use the results of a bonus action to trigger a Ready action. For example, you can have say after "I cast this bonus action spell, do X" or "after I take my bonus action attack, do X". As long as you are able to do the bonus action in the first place (unlike with the Shield Master bonus action) and you can perceive it, then you can use it as a trigger.



        Note that you can't just set a trigger off of "when I use my bonus action" because bonus actions are not a thing in-universe and thus it is not perceivable. The results or actual actions done with the bonus action are of course valid as described above.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        No, your Shield Master example won't work



        Shield Master says:




        If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield.




        If you take the Ready Action you are not taking the Attack action, even if you use it to attack.




        you can take the Ready action on your turn, which lets you act using your reaction before the start of your next turn.




        Only once the trigger occurs and your attack completes are you counted as having taken the Attack action.



        Since you don't take the Attack action, you do not get a bonus action shove. Since you don't get a bonus action shove, you won't be able to trigger your Readied action.



        So in the end, attempting this only results in a wasted action. It is still a valid way to phrase the Ready action, it will just always result in no trigger happening (unless the enemy becomes prone and right next to you still for some other reason before your next turn).



        In general, you can use the results of a bonus action as a trigger for a Ready action



        Though the above example didn't work, there is no reason that you cannot use the results of a bonus action to trigger a Ready action. For example, you can have say after "I cast this bonus action spell, do X" or "after I take my bonus action attack, do X". As long as you are able to do the bonus action in the first place (unlike with the Shield Master bonus action) and you can perceive it, then you can use it as a trigger.



        Note that you can't just set a trigger off of "when I use my bonus action" because bonus actions are not a thing in-universe and thus it is not perceivable. The results or actual actions done with the bonus action are of course valid as described above.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 6 hours ago

























        answered 6 hours ago









        RubiksmooseRubiksmoose

        61.7k10296453




        61.7k10296453








        • 1




          $begingroup$
          Aside from this, failing to knock them prone would result in never triggering the held action, never getting the bonus action shove, and thus never being able to try to knock them prone to begin with. Naturally this would destroy the space-time continuum of their campaign world.
          $endgroup$
          – Benjamin Olson
          6 hours ago














        • 1




          $begingroup$
          Aside from this, failing to knock them prone would result in never triggering the held action, never getting the bonus action shove, and thus never being able to try to knock them prone to begin with. Naturally this would destroy the space-time continuum of their campaign world.
          $endgroup$
          – Benjamin Olson
          6 hours ago








        1




        1




        $begingroup$
        Aside from this, failing to knock them prone would result in never triggering the held action, never getting the bonus action shove, and thus never being able to try to knock them prone to begin with. Naturally this would destroy the space-time continuum of their campaign world.
        $endgroup$
        – Benjamin Olson
        6 hours ago




        $begingroup$
        Aside from this, failing to knock them prone would result in never triggering the held action, never getting the bonus action shove, and thus never being able to try to knock them prone to begin with. Naturally this would destroy the space-time continuum of their campaign world.
        $endgroup$
        – Benjamin Olson
        6 hours ago













        4












        $begingroup$

        You are asking two different questions here.



        Your first question is:




        Can you perform a ready action with the condition being that you complete your bonus action, then you do your bonus action and then complete your action from your ready action?




        And the answer is that yes, you can do that. However, you don't really get any benefit from that, since any bonus action you could take to trigger the action must be a bonus action you could take anyway. You're just as well off not readying an action, using your bonus action, and then just taking a normal action.



        Your second question is:




        Isn't this legal exploit to reverse the action order?




        The Shield Master feat says:




        If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield.




        Though you could ready an action to trigger off of the "try to shove... with your shield" bonus action, you would never actually get to use that reaction and will have effectively wasted your action.



        The important text is "If you take the Attack action on your turn...". The Attack action is distinct from an attack and from a regular action. If you've readied an action, even if your readied action is to take the Attack action, then you still haven't taken the Attack action. Since you don't actually take the Attack action, your bonus action of "shove... with your shield" never takes place during your turn.



        In this scenario, you do still get to attack if, after readying that action, an opponent somehow ends up both adjacent and prone to you. However, you will still lose the shield shove bonus action if this happens outside your turn.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$


















          4












          $begingroup$

          You are asking two different questions here.



          Your first question is:




          Can you perform a ready action with the condition being that you complete your bonus action, then you do your bonus action and then complete your action from your ready action?




          And the answer is that yes, you can do that. However, you don't really get any benefit from that, since any bonus action you could take to trigger the action must be a bonus action you could take anyway. You're just as well off not readying an action, using your bonus action, and then just taking a normal action.



          Your second question is:




          Isn't this legal exploit to reverse the action order?




          The Shield Master feat says:




          If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield.




          Though you could ready an action to trigger off of the "try to shove... with your shield" bonus action, you would never actually get to use that reaction and will have effectively wasted your action.



          The important text is "If you take the Attack action on your turn...". The Attack action is distinct from an attack and from a regular action. If you've readied an action, even if your readied action is to take the Attack action, then you still haven't taken the Attack action. Since you don't actually take the Attack action, your bonus action of "shove... with your shield" never takes place during your turn.



          In this scenario, you do still get to attack if, after readying that action, an opponent somehow ends up both adjacent and prone to you. However, you will still lose the shield shove bonus action if this happens outside your turn.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$
















            4












            4








            4





            $begingroup$

            You are asking two different questions here.



            Your first question is:




            Can you perform a ready action with the condition being that you complete your bonus action, then you do your bonus action and then complete your action from your ready action?




            And the answer is that yes, you can do that. However, you don't really get any benefit from that, since any bonus action you could take to trigger the action must be a bonus action you could take anyway. You're just as well off not readying an action, using your bonus action, and then just taking a normal action.



            Your second question is:




            Isn't this legal exploit to reverse the action order?




            The Shield Master feat says:




            If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield.




            Though you could ready an action to trigger off of the "try to shove... with your shield" bonus action, you would never actually get to use that reaction and will have effectively wasted your action.



            The important text is "If you take the Attack action on your turn...". The Attack action is distinct from an attack and from a regular action. If you've readied an action, even if your readied action is to take the Attack action, then you still haven't taken the Attack action. Since you don't actually take the Attack action, your bonus action of "shove... with your shield" never takes place during your turn.



            In this scenario, you do still get to attack if, after readying that action, an opponent somehow ends up both adjacent and prone to you. However, you will still lose the shield shove bonus action if this happens outside your turn.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            You are asking two different questions here.



            Your first question is:




            Can you perform a ready action with the condition being that you complete your bonus action, then you do your bonus action and then complete your action from your ready action?




            And the answer is that yes, you can do that. However, you don't really get any benefit from that, since any bonus action you could take to trigger the action must be a bonus action you could take anyway. You're just as well off not readying an action, using your bonus action, and then just taking a normal action.



            Your second question is:




            Isn't this legal exploit to reverse the action order?




            The Shield Master feat says:




            If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield.




            Though you could ready an action to trigger off of the "try to shove... with your shield" bonus action, you would never actually get to use that reaction and will have effectively wasted your action.



            The important text is "If you take the Attack action on your turn...". The Attack action is distinct from an attack and from a regular action. If you've readied an action, even if your readied action is to take the Attack action, then you still haven't taken the Attack action. Since you don't actually take the Attack action, your bonus action of "shove... with your shield" never takes place during your turn.



            In this scenario, you do still get to attack if, after readying that action, an opponent somehow ends up both adjacent and prone to you. However, you will still lose the shield shove bonus action if this happens outside your turn.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 6 hours ago









            MrSpudtasticMrSpudtastic

            1,586313




            1,586313























                0












                $begingroup$

                While your particular example won't work due to Shield Master's bash requiring the Attack action be taken first, you can indeed have a readied action trigger on your own turn off of an (otherwise valid) bonus action. Your reaction is available from the beginning of your turn, meaning you can trigger it before your turn is over.



                The only limitation on readied action triggers is that they must be "perceivable circumstance[s]", there's nothing in that barring your bonus action from being the trigger.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$


















                  0












                  $begingroup$

                  While your particular example won't work due to Shield Master's bash requiring the Attack action be taken first, you can indeed have a readied action trigger on your own turn off of an (otherwise valid) bonus action. Your reaction is available from the beginning of your turn, meaning you can trigger it before your turn is over.



                  The only limitation on readied action triggers is that they must be "perceivable circumstance[s]", there's nothing in that barring your bonus action from being the trigger.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$
















                    0












                    0








                    0





                    $begingroup$

                    While your particular example won't work due to Shield Master's bash requiring the Attack action be taken first, you can indeed have a readied action trigger on your own turn off of an (otherwise valid) bonus action. Your reaction is available from the beginning of your turn, meaning you can trigger it before your turn is over.



                    The only limitation on readied action triggers is that they must be "perceivable circumstance[s]", there's nothing in that barring your bonus action from being the trigger.






                    share|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    While your particular example won't work due to Shield Master's bash requiring the Attack action be taken first, you can indeed have a readied action trigger on your own turn off of an (otherwise valid) bonus action. Your reaction is available from the beginning of your turn, meaning you can trigger it before your turn is over.



                    The only limitation on readied action triggers is that they must be "perceivable circumstance[s]", there's nothing in that barring your bonus action from being the trigger.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 6 hours ago









                    mechmech

                    1,7701319




                    1,7701319























                        -1












                        $begingroup$

                        It Could Destroy the Universe



                        This is a little like the time travel paradox of what would happen if a person traveling back in time caused themselves to never have traveled back in time in the first place.



                        Even if the Attack action were not distinct from a Ready action resulting in taking the Attack action, you would have a conundrum. The bonus actions made available by taking the attack action require it actually be taken. You would never be able to use the bonus action in the first place if the circumstances for the readied action fail to trigger.



                        In your example, failing to knock the enemy prone would result in never triggering the readied action, never getting the bonus action shove, and thus never being able to try to knock them prone to begin with. Naturally this would destroy the space-time continuum of your campaign world.



                        And yes, that's an absurd way of putting it, but the mechanical issue stands none the less. Things can't be used to trigger their own prerequisites unless success is absolutely certain.



                        It may well be that the logic of a bonus action not being able to come before an attack it depends on is based in a less convoluted version of its own logic. It is always possible that you will not actually take the prerequisite attack. If this is the case then this proposed exploit is just a roundabout way to get to the exact same original problem.






                        share|improve this answer











                        $endgroup$


















                          -1












                          $begingroup$

                          It Could Destroy the Universe



                          This is a little like the time travel paradox of what would happen if a person traveling back in time caused themselves to never have traveled back in time in the first place.



                          Even if the Attack action were not distinct from a Ready action resulting in taking the Attack action, you would have a conundrum. The bonus actions made available by taking the attack action require it actually be taken. You would never be able to use the bonus action in the first place if the circumstances for the readied action fail to trigger.



                          In your example, failing to knock the enemy prone would result in never triggering the readied action, never getting the bonus action shove, and thus never being able to try to knock them prone to begin with. Naturally this would destroy the space-time continuum of your campaign world.



                          And yes, that's an absurd way of putting it, but the mechanical issue stands none the less. Things can't be used to trigger their own prerequisites unless success is absolutely certain.



                          It may well be that the logic of a bonus action not being able to come before an attack it depends on is based in a less convoluted version of its own logic. It is always possible that you will not actually take the prerequisite attack. If this is the case then this proposed exploit is just a roundabout way to get to the exact same original problem.






                          share|improve this answer











                          $endgroup$
















                            -1












                            -1








                            -1





                            $begingroup$

                            It Could Destroy the Universe



                            This is a little like the time travel paradox of what would happen if a person traveling back in time caused themselves to never have traveled back in time in the first place.



                            Even if the Attack action were not distinct from a Ready action resulting in taking the Attack action, you would have a conundrum. The bonus actions made available by taking the attack action require it actually be taken. You would never be able to use the bonus action in the first place if the circumstances for the readied action fail to trigger.



                            In your example, failing to knock the enemy prone would result in never triggering the readied action, never getting the bonus action shove, and thus never being able to try to knock them prone to begin with. Naturally this would destroy the space-time continuum of your campaign world.



                            And yes, that's an absurd way of putting it, but the mechanical issue stands none the less. Things can't be used to trigger their own prerequisites unless success is absolutely certain.



                            It may well be that the logic of a bonus action not being able to come before an attack it depends on is based in a less convoluted version of its own logic. It is always possible that you will not actually take the prerequisite attack. If this is the case then this proposed exploit is just a roundabout way to get to the exact same original problem.






                            share|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$



                            It Could Destroy the Universe



                            This is a little like the time travel paradox of what would happen if a person traveling back in time caused themselves to never have traveled back in time in the first place.



                            Even if the Attack action were not distinct from a Ready action resulting in taking the Attack action, you would have a conundrum. The bonus actions made available by taking the attack action require it actually be taken. You would never be able to use the bonus action in the first place if the circumstances for the readied action fail to trigger.



                            In your example, failing to knock the enemy prone would result in never triggering the readied action, never getting the bonus action shove, and thus never being able to try to knock them prone to begin with. Naturally this would destroy the space-time continuum of your campaign world.



                            And yes, that's an absurd way of putting it, but the mechanical issue stands none the less. Things can't be used to trigger their own prerequisites unless success is absolutely certain.



                            It may well be that the logic of a bonus action not being able to come before an attack it depends on is based in a less convoluted version of its own logic. It is always possible that you will not actually take the prerequisite attack. If this is the case then this proposed exploit is just a roundabout way to get to the exact same original problem.







                            share|improve this answer














                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer








                            edited 5 hours ago

























                            answered 6 hours ago









                            Benjamin OlsonBenjamin Olson

                            86717




                            86717






















                                Amethyst Wizard is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










                                draft saved

                                draft discarded


















                                Amethyst Wizard is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.













                                Amethyst Wizard is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                                Amethyst Wizard is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
















                                Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!


                                • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                But avoid



                                • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                                Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                                To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                draft saved


                                draft discarded














                                StackExchange.ready(
                                function () {
                                StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f145382%2fcan-you-use-the-shield-master-feat-to-shove-someone-before-you-make-an-attack-by%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                                }
                                );

                                Post as a guest















                                Required, but never shown





















































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown

































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown







                                Popular posts from this blog

                                Why do type traits not work with types in namespace scope?What are POD types in C++?Why can templates only be...

                                Will tsunami waves travel forever if there was no land?Why do tsunami waves begin with the water flowing away...

                                Should I use Docker or LXD?How to cache (more) data on SSD/RAM to avoid spin up?Unable to get Windows File...