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Farming on the moon


What would the weather be like in an asteroid habitat?Are subsidiary lifeforms on the Moon possible?Get/Keep Air on the Moon!Timekeeping Systems on a Habitable MoonWould it be possible for an Earth-like planet to have multiple moons with diverse biomes capable of supporting life?Farming undergroundIn obligate carnivores, can I have animal husbandry (livestock-keeping) without farming ever developing?Harvesting solar wind particles for atmospheric accretion on the moonLifetime of the Moon's moonUnderwater Farming













8












$begingroup$


Let us assume that I built a dome on the moon's surface. That dome is pressurized and has nuclear-powered lights to deal with the long lunar night (or is in one of the poles). I also have water, either from the moon's lunar craters or from an icy asteroid gently landed on the surface and covered with something to protect it from evaporating under the sun.



How barren is the lunar soil? Why can't plants grow there and what can be done to fix its problems?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 8




    $begingroup$
    You're going to need electrolytes. Plants crave it. In all seriousness, you need to add carbon dioxide along with nutrients, water and a source of light. Also remember that plants can grow without traditional soil.
    $endgroup$
    – gwally
    17 hours ago






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    You should consider not using the soil at all and going for hydroponics. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics They offer way better yields per area and can be done vertically, further improving yields and efficiency. Some solutions use a fish farm in combination with the plant farm, diversifying food production and cheaply producing nutriants for the plants.
    $endgroup$
    – TheDyingOfLight
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Is there a long lunar night?
    $endgroup$
    – Willk
    16 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    It takes 28 earth days to rotate.
    $endgroup$
    – Geronimo
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @gwally Also you will need to speak with it ;)
    $endgroup$
    – jean
    8 hours ago
















8












$begingroup$


Let us assume that I built a dome on the moon's surface. That dome is pressurized and has nuclear-powered lights to deal with the long lunar night (or is in one of the poles). I also have water, either from the moon's lunar craters or from an icy asteroid gently landed on the surface and covered with something to protect it from evaporating under the sun.



How barren is the lunar soil? Why can't plants grow there and what can be done to fix its problems?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 8




    $begingroup$
    You're going to need electrolytes. Plants crave it. In all seriousness, you need to add carbon dioxide along with nutrients, water and a source of light. Also remember that plants can grow without traditional soil.
    $endgroup$
    – gwally
    17 hours ago






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    You should consider not using the soil at all and going for hydroponics. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics They offer way better yields per area and can be done vertically, further improving yields and efficiency. Some solutions use a fish farm in combination with the plant farm, diversifying food production and cheaply producing nutriants for the plants.
    $endgroup$
    – TheDyingOfLight
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Is there a long lunar night?
    $endgroup$
    – Willk
    16 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    It takes 28 earth days to rotate.
    $endgroup$
    – Geronimo
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @gwally Also you will need to speak with it ;)
    $endgroup$
    – jean
    8 hours ago














8












8








8


1



$begingroup$


Let us assume that I built a dome on the moon's surface. That dome is pressurized and has nuclear-powered lights to deal with the long lunar night (or is in one of the poles). I also have water, either from the moon's lunar craters or from an icy asteroid gently landed on the surface and covered with something to protect it from evaporating under the sun.



How barren is the lunar soil? Why can't plants grow there and what can be done to fix its problems?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




Let us assume that I built a dome on the moon's surface. That dome is pressurized and has nuclear-powered lights to deal with the long lunar night (or is in one of the poles). I also have water, either from the moon's lunar craters or from an icy asteroid gently landed on the surface and covered with something to protect it from evaporating under the sun.



How barren is the lunar soil? Why can't plants grow there and what can be done to fix its problems?







space moons farming






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 13 hours ago









Cyn

12.5k12758




12.5k12758










asked 18 hours ago









GeronimoGeronimo

1,346414




1,346414








  • 8




    $begingroup$
    You're going to need electrolytes. Plants crave it. In all seriousness, you need to add carbon dioxide along with nutrients, water and a source of light. Also remember that plants can grow without traditional soil.
    $endgroup$
    – gwally
    17 hours ago






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    You should consider not using the soil at all and going for hydroponics. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics They offer way better yields per area and can be done vertically, further improving yields and efficiency. Some solutions use a fish farm in combination with the plant farm, diversifying food production and cheaply producing nutriants for the plants.
    $endgroup$
    – TheDyingOfLight
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Is there a long lunar night?
    $endgroup$
    – Willk
    16 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    It takes 28 earth days to rotate.
    $endgroup$
    – Geronimo
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @gwally Also you will need to speak with it ;)
    $endgroup$
    – jean
    8 hours ago














  • 8




    $begingroup$
    You're going to need electrolytes. Plants crave it. In all seriousness, you need to add carbon dioxide along with nutrients, water and a source of light. Also remember that plants can grow without traditional soil.
    $endgroup$
    – gwally
    17 hours ago






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    You should consider not using the soil at all and going for hydroponics. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics They offer way better yields per area and can be done vertically, further improving yields and efficiency. Some solutions use a fish farm in combination with the plant farm, diversifying food production and cheaply producing nutriants for the plants.
    $endgroup$
    – TheDyingOfLight
    17 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Is there a long lunar night?
    $endgroup$
    – Willk
    16 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    It takes 28 earth days to rotate.
    $endgroup$
    – Geronimo
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @gwally Also you will need to speak with it ;)
    $endgroup$
    – jean
    8 hours ago








8




8




$begingroup$
You're going to need electrolytes. Plants crave it. In all seriousness, you need to add carbon dioxide along with nutrients, water and a source of light. Also remember that plants can grow without traditional soil.
$endgroup$
– gwally
17 hours ago




$begingroup$
You're going to need electrolytes. Plants crave it. In all seriousness, you need to add carbon dioxide along with nutrients, water and a source of light. Also remember that plants can grow without traditional soil.
$endgroup$
– gwally
17 hours ago




4




4




$begingroup$
You should consider not using the soil at all and going for hydroponics. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics They offer way better yields per area and can be done vertically, further improving yields and efficiency. Some solutions use a fish farm in combination with the plant farm, diversifying food production and cheaply producing nutriants for the plants.
$endgroup$
– TheDyingOfLight
17 hours ago




$begingroup$
You should consider not using the soil at all and going for hydroponics. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics They offer way better yields per area and can be done vertically, further improving yields and efficiency. Some solutions use a fish farm in combination with the plant farm, diversifying food production and cheaply producing nutriants for the plants.
$endgroup$
– TheDyingOfLight
17 hours ago












$begingroup$
Is there a long lunar night?
$endgroup$
– Willk
16 hours ago




$begingroup$
Is there a long lunar night?
$endgroup$
– Willk
16 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
It takes 28 earth days to rotate.
$endgroup$
– Geronimo
15 hours ago




$begingroup$
It takes 28 earth days to rotate.
$endgroup$
– Geronimo
15 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
@gwally Also you will need to speak with it ;)
$endgroup$
– jean
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
@gwally Also you will need to speak with it ;)
$endgroup$
– jean
8 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















9












$begingroup$

Experiments have been done about this:



https://theunconventionalgardener.com/blog/growing-plants-in-lunar-soil/



https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0103138




When humans will settle on the moon or Mars they will have to eat there. Food may be flown in. An alternative could be to cultivate plants at the site itself, preferably in native soils. We report on the first large-scale controlled experiment to investigate the possibility of growing plants in Mars and moon soil simulants. The results show that plants are able to germinate and grow on both Martian and moon soil simulant for a period of 50 days without any addition of nutrients. Growth and flowering on Mars regolith simulant was much better than on moon regolith simulant and even slightly better than on our control nutrient poor river soil. Reflexed stonecrop (a wild plant); the crops tomato, wheat, and cress; and the green manure species field mustard performed particularly well. The latter three flowered, and cress and field mustard also produced seeds. Our results show that in principle it is possible to grow crops and other plant species in Martian and Lunar soil simulants. However, many questions remain about the simulants' water carrying capacity and other physical characteristics and also whether the simulants are representative of the real soils.







share|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Neat! Cress and mustard sandwiches here we come :)
    $endgroup$
    – Ynneadwraith
    17 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I think I have read somewhere that actual Martian soil, when exposed to water, liberates hypochlorite, which not exactly plant friendly. Was it accounted in the study?
    $endgroup$
    – L.Dutch
    14 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @L.Dutch " it should be noted that none of the simulants include percholorates"
    $endgroup$
    – Ville Niemi
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @L.Dutch The simulant used in the study actually predates the discovery of perchlorates in Martian soil.
    $endgroup$
    – Ville Niemi
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @L.Dutch The reason given for newer simulants not including perchlorates is the health hazard to humans performing experiments. That to me implies that any Martian farmer would pre-process the soil they use to remove the perchlorates regardless of whether plants deal with it.
    $endgroup$
    – Ville Niemi
    13 hours ago



















7












$begingroup$

Lunar soil is made of regolith




Regolith covers almost the entire lunar surface, bedrock protruding only on very steep-sided crater walls and the occasional lava channel. This regolith has formed over the last 4.6 billion years from the impact of large and small meteoroids, from the steady bombardment of micrometeoroids and from solar and galactic charged particles breaking down surface rocks.



There are two profound differences in the chemistry of lunar regolith and soil from terrestrial materials. The first is that the Moon is very dry. As a result, those minerals with water as part of their structure such as clay, mica, and amphiboles are totally absent from the Moon. The second difference is that lunar regolith and crust are chemically reduced, rather than being significantly oxidized like the Earth's crust. In the case of the regolith, this is due in part to the constant bombardment of the lunar surface with protons (i.e. hydrogen (H) nuclei) from the solar wind. One consequence is that iron on the Moon is found in the metallic 0 and +2 oxidation states, whereas on Earth iron is found primarily in the +2 and +3 oxidation states.




To grow plants you need to have pedolith




Soil is a mixture of organic matter, minerals, gases, liquids, and organisms that together support life. Earth's body of soil, called the pedosphere, has four important functions:




  • as a medium for plant growth

  • as a means of water storage, supply and purification

  • as a modifier of Earth's atmosphere

  • as a habitat for organisms




It's more or less the same situation one find immediately after a volcanic eruption: the solidified lava cannot host life as it is, it needs to be weathered and transformed to become pedolith..






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    The reduced state will hurt the roots, won't it?
    $endgroup$
    – Geronimo
    16 hours ago



















4












$begingroup$

It is said by this popsci article that both lunar and martian soil are viable planting mediums. The test shows that martian soil is much better than lunar soil. The journal's report backs that up. Popsci does not give final conclusion: it is possible, they say, but many questions remain. The soil seems to dry-out quickly, they add. On the other hand, you must remember that eons of meteor bombardment makes ultra-fine dust. You must remove the dust, or your planter will turn the soil into a concrete block. (Don't know how coarse was their tested soil, if it dried so quickly). The soil may be processed to remove fine dust. As it was never exposed to water, you may see how it reacts with it. Once a reaction (if any) takes place, the chemical reactivity is neutralized. You may start adding nutrients and beneficial microorganisms and start planting.



Nasa's article states that the 4 elements necessary for growth are not available in the soil, with oxygen being bound. They are naturally absorbed through water and the atmosphere: carbon, oxygen, hydrogen and nitrogen. All other elements may be present in the soil.



Bbc article shows that marigolds can thrive on the minerals. So yes, that is possible. Don't forget that under lab conditions on earth they receive the 4 elements C, O, H, N from air, water and co2, so that the minerals in the soil make-up for what's missing. This allows us to extract water from polar ice, provide humans and poultry as a source of CO2 and maybe all what we need to bring to the moon is some nitrogen fertilizer to start the nitrogen cycle. With an adequate supply of minerals you can maintain a cycle.



DISCLAIMER: Part of my experience comes from a failed attempt to plant in a soil patch which was stripped or unpaved. The area was under concrete for many years and too inert for any planting. It took some time until plants began taking a roothold. This shows the importance of introducing oxygen and essential organisms into a soil which has always been sterile.



References



Popsci: https://www.popsci.com/article/technology/crops-grow-fake-moon-and-mars-soil



The journal: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0103138



Nasa: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32005.0



Bbc: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7351437.stm






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    3












    $begingroup$

    I think it's worth mentioning that even if you could use lunar soil to grow plants, it may not be a good idea for your Lunarians:




    1. https://www.livescience.com/62590-moon-dust-bad-lungs-brain.html


    2. https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2005/22apr_dontinhale



    "The real problem is the lungs," he explains. "In some ways, lunar
    dust resembles the silica dust on Earth that causes silicosis, a
    serious disease." Silicosis, which used to be called "stone-grinder's
    disease," first came to widespread public attention during the Great
    Depression when hundreds of miners drilling the Hawk's Nest Tunnel
    through Gauley Mountain in West Virginia died within half a decade of
    breathing fine quartz dust kicked into the air by dry drilling--even
    though they had been exposed for only a few months. "It was one of the
    biggest occupational-health disasters in U.S. history," Kerschmann
    says. This won't necessarily happen to astronauts, he assures, but
    it's a problem we need to be aware of--and to guard against.



    Quartz, the main cause of silicosis, is not chemically poisonous: "You
    could eat it and not get sick," he continues. "But when quartz is
    freshly ground into dust particles smaller than 10 microns (for
    comparison, a human hair is 50+ microns wide) and breathed into the
    lungs, they can embed themselves deeply into the tiny alveolar sacs
    and ducts where oxygen and carbon dioxide gases are exchanged." There,
    the lungs cannot clear out the dust by mucous or coughing. Moreover,
    the immune system's white blood cells commit suicide when they try to
    engulf the sharp-edged particles to carry them away in the
    bloodstream. In the acute form of silicosis, the lungs can fill with
    proteins from the blood, "and it's as if the victim slowly suffocates"
    from a pneumonia-like condition.




    Obviously we don't know for sure how it might happen, but before I start pulling in large quantities of moon (or martian) soil I'd like to make sure we've determined for sure that the soil won't kill me, even if the plants like it.



    Personally, I'd just go for the hydroponics.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$














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      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      9












      $begingroup$

      Experiments have been done about this:



      https://theunconventionalgardener.com/blog/growing-plants-in-lunar-soil/



      https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0103138




      When humans will settle on the moon or Mars they will have to eat there. Food may be flown in. An alternative could be to cultivate plants at the site itself, preferably in native soils. We report on the first large-scale controlled experiment to investigate the possibility of growing plants in Mars and moon soil simulants. The results show that plants are able to germinate and grow on both Martian and moon soil simulant for a period of 50 days without any addition of nutrients. Growth and flowering on Mars regolith simulant was much better than on moon regolith simulant and even slightly better than on our control nutrient poor river soil. Reflexed stonecrop (a wild plant); the crops tomato, wheat, and cress; and the green manure species field mustard performed particularly well. The latter three flowered, and cress and field mustard also produced seeds. Our results show that in principle it is possible to grow crops and other plant species in Martian and Lunar soil simulants. However, many questions remain about the simulants' water carrying capacity and other physical characteristics and also whether the simulants are representative of the real soils.







      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$









      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Neat! Cress and mustard sandwiches here we come :)
        $endgroup$
        – Ynneadwraith
        17 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        I think I have read somewhere that actual Martian soil, when exposed to water, liberates hypochlorite, which not exactly plant friendly. Was it accounted in the study?
        $endgroup$
        – L.Dutch
        14 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @L.Dutch " it should be noted that none of the simulants include percholorates"
        $endgroup$
        – Ville Niemi
        13 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        @L.Dutch The simulant used in the study actually predates the discovery of perchlorates in Martian soil.
        $endgroup$
        – Ville Niemi
        13 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        @L.Dutch The reason given for newer simulants not including perchlorates is the health hazard to humans performing experiments. That to me implies that any Martian farmer would pre-process the soil they use to remove the perchlorates regardless of whether plants deal with it.
        $endgroup$
        – Ville Niemi
        13 hours ago
















      9












      $begingroup$

      Experiments have been done about this:



      https://theunconventionalgardener.com/blog/growing-plants-in-lunar-soil/



      https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0103138




      When humans will settle on the moon or Mars they will have to eat there. Food may be flown in. An alternative could be to cultivate plants at the site itself, preferably in native soils. We report on the first large-scale controlled experiment to investigate the possibility of growing plants in Mars and moon soil simulants. The results show that plants are able to germinate and grow on both Martian and moon soil simulant for a period of 50 days without any addition of nutrients. Growth and flowering on Mars regolith simulant was much better than on moon regolith simulant and even slightly better than on our control nutrient poor river soil. Reflexed stonecrop (a wild plant); the crops tomato, wheat, and cress; and the green manure species field mustard performed particularly well. The latter three flowered, and cress and field mustard also produced seeds. Our results show that in principle it is possible to grow crops and other plant species in Martian and Lunar soil simulants. However, many questions remain about the simulants' water carrying capacity and other physical characteristics and also whether the simulants are representative of the real soils.







      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$









      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Neat! Cress and mustard sandwiches here we come :)
        $endgroup$
        – Ynneadwraith
        17 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        I think I have read somewhere that actual Martian soil, when exposed to water, liberates hypochlorite, which not exactly plant friendly. Was it accounted in the study?
        $endgroup$
        – L.Dutch
        14 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @L.Dutch " it should be noted that none of the simulants include percholorates"
        $endgroup$
        – Ville Niemi
        13 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        @L.Dutch The simulant used in the study actually predates the discovery of perchlorates in Martian soil.
        $endgroup$
        – Ville Niemi
        13 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        @L.Dutch The reason given for newer simulants not including perchlorates is the health hazard to humans performing experiments. That to me implies that any Martian farmer would pre-process the soil they use to remove the perchlorates regardless of whether plants deal with it.
        $endgroup$
        – Ville Niemi
        13 hours ago














      9












      9








      9





      $begingroup$

      Experiments have been done about this:



      https://theunconventionalgardener.com/blog/growing-plants-in-lunar-soil/



      https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0103138




      When humans will settle on the moon or Mars they will have to eat there. Food may be flown in. An alternative could be to cultivate plants at the site itself, preferably in native soils. We report on the first large-scale controlled experiment to investigate the possibility of growing plants in Mars and moon soil simulants. The results show that plants are able to germinate and grow on both Martian and moon soil simulant for a period of 50 days without any addition of nutrients. Growth and flowering on Mars regolith simulant was much better than on moon regolith simulant and even slightly better than on our control nutrient poor river soil. Reflexed stonecrop (a wild plant); the crops tomato, wheat, and cress; and the green manure species field mustard performed particularly well. The latter three flowered, and cress and field mustard also produced seeds. Our results show that in principle it is possible to grow crops and other plant species in Martian and Lunar soil simulants. However, many questions remain about the simulants' water carrying capacity and other physical characteristics and also whether the simulants are representative of the real soils.







      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$



      Experiments have been done about this:



      https://theunconventionalgardener.com/blog/growing-plants-in-lunar-soil/



      https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0103138




      When humans will settle on the moon or Mars they will have to eat there. Food may be flown in. An alternative could be to cultivate plants at the site itself, preferably in native soils. We report on the first large-scale controlled experiment to investigate the possibility of growing plants in Mars and moon soil simulants. The results show that plants are able to germinate and grow on both Martian and moon soil simulant for a period of 50 days without any addition of nutrients. Growth and flowering on Mars regolith simulant was much better than on moon regolith simulant and even slightly better than on our control nutrient poor river soil. Reflexed stonecrop (a wild plant); the crops tomato, wheat, and cress; and the green manure species field mustard performed particularly well. The latter three flowered, and cress and field mustard also produced seeds. Our results show that in principle it is possible to grow crops and other plant species in Martian and Lunar soil simulants. However, many questions remain about the simulants' water carrying capacity and other physical characteristics and also whether the simulants are representative of the real soils.








      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered 18 hours ago









      Tim BTim B

      64.2k24180302




      64.2k24180302








      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Neat! Cress and mustard sandwiches here we come :)
        $endgroup$
        – Ynneadwraith
        17 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        I think I have read somewhere that actual Martian soil, when exposed to water, liberates hypochlorite, which not exactly plant friendly. Was it accounted in the study?
        $endgroup$
        – L.Dutch
        14 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @L.Dutch " it should be noted that none of the simulants include percholorates"
        $endgroup$
        – Ville Niemi
        13 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        @L.Dutch The simulant used in the study actually predates the discovery of perchlorates in Martian soil.
        $endgroup$
        – Ville Niemi
        13 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        @L.Dutch The reason given for newer simulants not including perchlorates is the health hazard to humans performing experiments. That to me implies that any Martian farmer would pre-process the soil they use to remove the perchlorates regardless of whether plants deal with it.
        $endgroup$
        – Ville Niemi
        13 hours ago














      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Neat! Cress and mustard sandwiches here we come :)
        $endgroup$
        – Ynneadwraith
        17 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        I think I have read somewhere that actual Martian soil, when exposed to water, liberates hypochlorite, which not exactly plant friendly. Was it accounted in the study?
        $endgroup$
        – L.Dutch
        14 hours ago






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        @L.Dutch " it should be noted that none of the simulants include percholorates"
        $endgroup$
        – Ville Niemi
        13 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        @L.Dutch The simulant used in the study actually predates the discovery of perchlorates in Martian soil.
        $endgroup$
        – Ville Niemi
        13 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        @L.Dutch The reason given for newer simulants not including perchlorates is the health hazard to humans performing experiments. That to me implies that any Martian farmer would pre-process the soil they use to remove the perchlorates regardless of whether plants deal with it.
        $endgroup$
        – Ville Niemi
        13 hours ago








      2




      2




      $begingroup$
      Neat! Cress and mustard sandwiches here we come :)
      $endgroup$
      – Ynneadwraith
      17 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      Neat! Cress and mustard sandwiches here we come :)
      $endgroup$
      – Ynneadwraith
      17 hours ago




      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      I think I have read somewhere that actual Martian soil, when exposed to water, liberates hypochlorite, which not exactly plant friendly. Was it accounted in the study?
      $endgroup$
      – L.Dutch
      14 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      I think I have read somewhere that actual Martian soil, when exposed to water, liberates hypochlorite, which not exactly plant friendly. Was it accounted in the study?
      $endgroup$
      – L.Dutch
      14 hours ago




      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      @L.Dutch " it should be noted that none of the simulants include percholorates"
      $endgroup$
      – Ville Niemi
      13 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      @L.Dutch " it should be noted that none of the simulants include percholorates"
      $endgroup$
      – Ville Niemi
      13 hours ago












      $begingroup$
      @L.Dutch The simulant used in the study actually predates the discovery of perchlorates in Martian soil.
      $endgroup$
      – Ville Niemi
      13 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      @L.Dutch The simulant used in the study actually predates the discovery of perchlorates in Martian soil.
      $endgroup$
      – Ville Niemi
      13 hours ago












      $begingroup$
      @L.Dutch The reason given for newer simulants not including perchlorates is the health hazard to humans performing experiments. That to me implies that any Martian farmer would pre-process the soil they use to remove the perchlorates regardless of whether plants deal with it.
      $endgroup$
      – Ville Niemi
      13 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      @L.Dutch The reason given for newer simulants not including perchlorates is the health hazard to humans performing experiments. That to me implies that any Martian farmer would pre-process the soil they use to remove the perchlorates regardless of whether plants deal with it.
      $endgroup$
      – Ville Niemi
      13 hours ago











      7












      $begingroup$

      Lunar soil is made of regolith




      Regolith covers almost the entire lunar surface, bedrock protruding only on very steep-sided crater walls and the occasional lava channel. This regolith has formed over the last 4.6 billion years from the impact of large and small meteoroids, from the steady bombardment of micrometeoroids and from solar and galactic charged particles breaking down surface rocks.



      There are two profound differences in the chemistry of lunar regolith and soil from terrestrial materials. The first is that the Moon is very dry. As a result, those minerals with water as part of their structure such as clay, mica, and amphiboles are totally absent from the Moon. The second difference is that lunar regolith and crust are chemically reduced, rather than being significantly oxidized like the Earth's crust. In the case of the regolith, this is due in part to the constant bombardment of the lunar surface with protons (i.e. hydrogen (H) nuclei) from the solar wind. One consequence is that iron on the Moon is found in the metallic 0 and +2 oxidation states, whereas on Earth iron is found primarily in the +2 and +3 oxidation states.




      To grow plants you need to have pedolith




      Soil is a mixture of organic matter, minerals, gases, liquids, and organisms that together support life. Earth's body of soil, called the pedosphere, has four important functions:




      • as a medium for plant growth

      • as a means of water storage, supply and purification

      • as a modifier of Earth's atmosphere

      • as a habitat for organisms




      It's more or less the same situation one find immediately after a volcanic eruption: the solidified lava cannot host life as it is, it needs to be weathered and transformed to become pedolith..






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        The reduced state will hurt the roots, won't it?
        $endgroup$
        – Geronimo
        16 hours ago
















      7












      $begingroup$

      Lunar soil is made of regolith




      Regolith covers almost the entire lunar surface, bedrock protruding only on very steep-sided crater walls and the occasional lava channel. This regolith has formed over the last 4.6 billion years from the impact of large and small meteoroids, from the steady bombardment of micrometeoroids and from solar and galactic charged particles breaking down surface rocks.



      There are two profound differences in the chemistry of lunar regolith and soil from terrestrial materials. The first is that the Moon is very dry. As a result, those minerals with water as part of their structure such as clay, mica, and amphiboles are totally absent from the Moon. The second difference is that lunar regolith and crust are chemically reduced, rather than being significantly oxidized like the Earth's crust. In the case of the regolith, this is due in part to the constant bombardment of the lunar surface with protons (i.e. hydrogen (H) nuclei) from the solar wind. One consequence is that iron on the Moon is found in the metallic 0 and +2 oxidation states, whereas on Earth iron is found primarily in the +2 and +3 oxidation states.




      To grow plants you need to have pedolith




      Soil is a mixture of organic matter, minerals, gases, liquids, and organisms that together support life. Earth's body of soil, called the pedosphere, has four important functions:




      • as a medium for plant growth

      • as a means of water storage, supply and purification

      • as a modifier of Earth's atmosphere

      • as a habitat for organisms




      It's more or less the same situation one find immediately after a volcanic eruption: the solidified lava cannot host life as it is, it needs to be weathered and transformed to become pedolith..






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        The reduced state will hurt the roots, won't it?
        $endgroup$
        – Geronimo
        16 hours ago














      7












      7








      7





      $begingroup$

      Lunar soil is made of regolith




      Regolith covers almost the entire lunar surface, bedrock protruding only on very steep-sided crater walls and the occasional lava channel. This regolith has formed over the last 4.6 billion years from the impact of large and small meteoroids, from the steady bombardment of micrometeoroids and from solar and galactic charged particles breaking down surface rocks.



      There are two profound differences in the chemistry of lunar regolith and soil from terrestrial materials. The first is that the Moon is very dry. As a result, those minerals with water as part of their structure such as clay, mica, and amphiboles are totally absent from the Moon. The second difference is that lunar regolith and crust are chemically reduced, rather than being significantly oxidized like the Earth's crust. In the case of the regolith, this is due in part to the constant bombardment of the lunar surface with protons (i.e. hydrogen (H) nuclei) from the solar wind. One consequence is that iron on the Moon is found in the metallic 0 and +2 oxidation states, whereas on Earth iron is found primarily in the +2 and +3 oxidation states.




      To grow plants you need to have pedolith




      Soil is a mixture of organic matter, minerals, gases, liquids, and organisms that together support life. Earth's body of soil, called the pedosphere, has four important functions:




      • as a medium for plant growth

      • as a means of water storage, supply and purification

      • as a modifier of Earth's atmosphere

      • as a habitat for organisms




      It's more or less the same situation one find immediately after a volcanic eruption: the solidified lava cannot host life as it is, it needs to be weathered and transformed to become pedolith..






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$



      Lunar soil is made of regolith




      Regolith covers almost the entire lunar surface, bedrock protruding only on very steep-sided crater walls and the occasional lava channel. This regolith has formed over the last 4.6 billion years from the impact of large and small meteoroids, from the steady bombardment of micrometeoroids and from solar and galactic charged particles breaking down surface rocks.



      There are two profound differences in the chemistry of lunar regolith and soil from terrestrial materials. The first is that the Moon is very dry. As a result, those minerals with water as part of their structure such as clay, mica, and amphiboles are totally absent from the Moon. The second difference is that lunar regolith and crust are chemically reduced, rather than being significantly oxidized like the Earth's crust. In the case of the regolith, this is due in part to the constant bombardment of the lunar surface with protons (i.e. hydrogen (H) nuclei) from the solar wind. One consequence is that iron on the Moon is found in the metallic 0 and +2 oxidation states, whereas on Earth iron is found primarily in the +2 and +3 oxidation states.




      To grow plants you need to have pedolith




      Soil is a mixture of organic matter, minerals, gases, liquids, and organisms that together support life. Earth's body of soil, called the pedosphere, has four important functions:




      • as a medium for plant growth

      • as a means of water storage, supply and purification

      • as a modifier of Earth's atmosphere

      • as a habitat for organisms




      It's more or less the same situation one find immediately after a volcanic eruption: the solidified lava cannot host life as it is, it needs to be weathered and transformed to become pedolith..







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited 16 hours ago

























      answered 18 hours ago









      L.DutchL.Dutch

      93k29214447




      93k29214447












      • $begingroup$
        The reduced state will hurt the roots, won't it?
        $endgroup$
        – Geronimo
        16 hours ago


















      • $begingroup$
        The reduced state will hurt the roots, won't it?
        $endgroup$
        – Geronimo
        16 hours ago
















      $begingroup$
      The reduced state will hurt the roots, won't it?
      $endgroup$
      – Geronimo
      16 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      The reduced state will hurt the roots, won't it?
      $endgroup$
      – Geronimo
      16 hours ago











      4












      $begingroup$

      It is said by this popsci article that both lunar and martian soil are viable planting mediums. The test shows that martian soil is much better than lunar soil. The journal's report backs that up. Popsci does not give final conclusion: it is possible, they say, but many questions remain. The soil seems to dry-out quickly, they add. On the other hand, you must remember that eons of meteor bombardment makes ultra-fine dust. You must remove the dust, or your planter will turn the soil into a concrete block. (Don't know how coarse was their tested soil, if it dried so quickly). The soil may be processed to remove fine dust. As it was never exposed to water, you may see how it reacts with it. Once a reaction (if any) takes place, the chemical reactivity is neutralized. You may start adding nutrients and beneficial microorganisms and start planting.



      Nasa's article states that the 4 elements necessary for growth are not available in the soil, with oxygen being bound. They are naturally absorbed through water and the atmosphere: carbon, oxygen, hydrogen and nitrogen. All other elements may be present in the soil.



      Bbc article shows that marigolds can thrive on the minerals. So yes, that is possible. Don't forget that under lab conditions on earth they receive the 4 elements C, O, H, N from air, water and co2, so that the minerals in the soil make-up for what's missing. This allows us to extract water from polar ice, provide humans and poultry as a source of CO2 and maybe all what we need to bring to the moon is some nitrogen fertilizer to start the nitrogen cycle. With an adequate supply of minerals you can maintain a cycle.



      DISCLAIMER: Part of my experience comes from a failed attempt to plant in a soil patch which was stripped or unpaved. The area was under concrete for many years and too inert for any planting. It took some time until plants began taking a roothold. This shows the importance of introducing oxygen and essential organisms into a soil which has always been sterile.



      References



      Popsci: https://www.popsci.com/article/technology/crops-grow-fake-moon-and-mars-soil



      The journal: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0103138



      Nasa: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32005.0



      Bbc: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7351437.stm






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        4












        $begingroup$

        It is said by this popsci article that both lunar and martian soil are viable planting mediums. The test shows that martian soil is much better than lunar soil. The journal's report backs that up. Popsci does not give final conclusion: it is possible, they say, but many questions remain. The soil seems to dry-out quickly, they add. On the other hand, you must remember that eons of meteor bombardment makes ultra-fine dust. You must remove the dust, or your planter will turn the soil into a concrete block. (Don't know how coarse was their tested soil, if it dried so quickly). The soil may be processed to remove fine dust. As it was never exposed to water, you may see how it reacts with it. Once a reaction (if any) takes place, the chemical reactivity is neutralized. You may start adding nutrients and beneficial microorganisms and start planting.



        Nasa's article states that the 4 elements necessary for growth are not available in the soil, with oxygen being bound. They are naturally absorbed through water and the atmosphere: carbon, oxygen, hydrogen and nitrogen. All other elements may be present in the soil.



        Bbc article shows that marigolds can thrive on the minerals. So yes, that is possible. Don't forget that under lab conditions on earth they receive the 4 elements C, O, H, N from air, water and co2, so that the minerals in the soil make-up for what's missing. This allows us to extract water from polar ice, provide humans and poultry as a source of CO2 and maybe all what we need to bring to the moon is some nitrogen fertilizer to start the nitrogen cycle. With an adequate supply of minerals you can maintain a cycle.



        DISCLAIMER: Part of my experience comes from a failed attempt to plant in a soil patch which was stripped or unpaved. The area was under concrete for many years and too inert for any planting. It took some time until plants began taking a roothold. This shows the importance of introducing oxygen and essential organisms into a soil which has always been sterile.



        References



        Popsci: https://www.popsci.com/article/technology/crops-grow-fake-moon-and-mars-soil



        The journal: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0103138



        Nasa: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32005.0



        Bbc: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7351437.stm






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          4












          4








          4





          $begingroup$

          It is said by this popsci article that both lunar and martian soil are viable planting mediums. The test shows that martian soil is much better than lunar soil. The journal's report backs that up. Popsci does not give final conclusion: it is possible, they say, but many questions remain. The soil seems to dry-out quickly, they add. On the other hand, you must remember that eons of meteor bombardment makes ultra-fine dust. You must remove the dust, or your planter will turn the soil into a concrete block. (Don't know how coarse was their tested soil, if it dried so quickly). The soil may be processed to remove fine dust. As it was never exposed to water, you may see how it reacts with it. Once a reaction (if any) takes place, the chemical reactivity is neutralized. You may start adding nutrients and beneficial microorganisms and start planting.



          Nasa's article states that the 4 elements necessary for growth are not available in the soil, with oxygen being bound. They are naturally absorbed through water and the atmosphere: carbon, oxygen, hydrogen and nitrogen. All other elements may be present in the soil.



          Bbc article shows that marigolds can thrive on the minerals. So yes, that is possible. Don't forget that under lab conditions on earth they receive the 4 elements C, O, H, N from air, water and co2, so that the minerals in the soil make-up for what's missing. This allows us to extract water from polar ice, provide humans and poultry as a source of CO2 and maybe all what we need to bring to the moon is some nitrogen fertilizer to start the nitrogen cycle. With an adequate supply of minerals you can maintain a cycle.



          DISCLAIMER: Part of my experience comes from a failed attempt to plant in a soil patch which was stripped or unpaved. The area was under concrete for many years and too inert for any planting. It took some time until plants began taking a roothold. This shows the importance of introducing oxygen and essential organisms into a soil which has always been sterile.



          References



          Popsci: https://www.popsci.com/article/technology/crops-grow-fake-moon-and-mars-soil



          The journal: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0103138



          Nasa: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32005.0



          Bbc: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7351437.stm






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          It is said by this popsci article that both lunar and martian soil are viable planting mediums. The test shows that martian soil is much better than lunar soil. The journal's report backs that up. Popsci does not give final conclusion: it is possible, they say, but many questions remain. The soil seems to dry-out quickly, they add. On the other hand, you must remember that eons of meteor bombardment makes ultra-fine dust. You must remove the dust, or your planter will turn the soil into a concrete block. (Don't know how coarse was their tested soil, if it dried so quickly). The soil may be processed to remove fine dust. As it was never exposed to water, you may see how it reacts with it. Once a reaction (if any) takes place, the chemical reactivity is neutralized. You may start adding nutrients and beneficial microorganisms and start planting.



          Nasa's article states that the 4 elements necessary for growth are not available in the soil, with oxygen being bound. They are naturally absorbed through water and the atmosphere: carbon, oxygen, hydrogen and nitrogen. All other elements may be present in the soil.



          Bbc article shows that marigolds can thrive on the minerals. So yes, that is possible. Don't forget that under lab conditions on earth they receive the 4 elements C, O, H, N from air, water and co2, so that the minerals in the soil make-up for what's missing. This allows us to extract water from polar ice, provide humans and poultry as a source of CO2 and maybe all what we need to bring to the moon is some nitrogen fertilizer to start the nitrogen cycle. With an adequate supply of minerals you can maintain a cycle.



          DISCLAIMER: Part of my experience comes from a failed attempt to plant in a soil patch which was stripped or unpaved. The area was under concrete for many years and too inert for any planting. It took some time until plants began taking a roothold. This shows the importance of introducing oxygen and essential organisms into a soil which has always been sterile.



          References



          Popsci: https://www.popsci.com/article/technology/crops-grow-fake-moon-and-mars-soil



          The journal: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0103138



          Nasa: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32005.0



          Bbc: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7351437.stm







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 17 hours ago









          Christmas SnowChristmas Snow

          3,122318




          3,122318























              3












              $begingroup$

              I think it's worth mentioning that even if you could use lunar soil to grow plants, it may not be a good idea for your Lunarians:




              1. https://www.livescience.com/62590-moon-dust-bad-lungs-brain.html


              2. https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2005/22apr_dontinhale



              "The real problem is the lungs," he explains. "In some ways, lunar
              dust resembles the silica dust on Earth that causes silicosis, a
              serious disease." Silicosis, which used to be called "stone-grinder's
              disease," first came to widespread public attention during the Great
              Depression when hundreds of miners drilling the Hawk's Nest Tunnel
              through Gauley Mountain in West Virginia died within half a decade of
              breathing fine quartz dust kicked into the air by dry drilling--even
              though they had been exposed for only a few months. "It was one of the
              biggest occupational-health disasters in U.S. history," Kerschmann
              says. This won't necessarily happen to astronauts, he assures, but
              it's a problem we need to be aware of--and to guard against.



              Quartz, the main cause of silicosis, is not chemically poisonous: "You
              could eat it and not get sick," he continues. "But when quartz is
              freshly ground into dust particles smaller than 10 microns (for
              comparison, a human hair is 50+ microns wide) and breathed into the
              lungs, they can embed themselves deeply into the tiny alveolar sacs
              and ducts where oxygen and carbon dioxide gases are exchanged." There,
              the lungs cannot clear out the dust by mucous or coughing. Moreover,
              the immune system's white blood cells commit suicide when they try to
              engulf the sharp-edged particles to carry them away in the
              bloodstream. In the acute form of silicosis, the lungs can fill with
              proteins from the blood, "and it's as if the victim slowly suffocates"
              from a pneumonia-like condition.




              Obviously we don't know for sure how it might happen, but before I start pulling in large quantities of moon (or martian) soil I'd like to make sure we've determined for sure that the soil won't kill me, even if the plants like it.



              Personally, I'd just go for the hydroponics.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                3












                $begingroup$

                I think it's worth mentioning that even if you could use lunar soil to grow plants, it may not be a good idea for your Lunarians:




                1. https://www.livescience.com/62590-moon-dust-bad-lungs-brain.html


                2. https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2005/22apr_dontinhale



                "The real problem is the lungs," he explains. "In some ways, lunar
                dust resembles the silica dust on Earth that causes silicosis, a
                serious disease." Silicosis, which used to be called "stone-grinder's
                disease," first came to widespread public attention during the Great
                Depression when hundreds of miners drilling the Hawk's Nest Tunnel
                through Gauley Mountain in West Virginia died within half a decade of
                breathing fine quartz dust kicked into the air by dry drilling--even
                though they had been exposed for only a few months. "It was one of the
                biggest occupational-health disasters in U.S. history," Kerschmann
                says. This won't necessarily happen to astronauts, he assures, but
                it's a problem we need to be aware of--and to guard against.



                Quartz, the main cause of silicosis, is not chemically poisonous: "You
                could eat it and not get sick," he continues. "But when quartz is
                freshly ground into dust particles smaller than 10 microns (for
                comparison, a human hair is 50+ microns wide) and breathed into the
                lungs, they can embed themselves deeply into the tiny alveolar sacs
                and ducts where oxygen and carbon dioxide gases are exchanged." There,
                the lungs cannot clear out the dust by mucous or coughing. Moreover,
                the immune system's white blood cells commit suicide when they try to
                engulf the sharp-edged particles to carry them away in the
                bloodstream. In the acute form of silicosis, the lungs can fill with
                proteins from the blood, "and it's as if the victim slowly suffocates"
                from a pneumonia-like condition.




                Obviously we don't know for sure how it might happen, but before I start pulling in large quantities of moon (or martian) soil I'd like to make sure we've determined for sure that the soil won't kill me, even if the plants like it.



                Personally, I'd just go for the hydroponics.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  3












                  3








                  3





                  $begingroup$

                  I think it's worth mentioning that even if you could use lunar soil to grow plants, it may not be a good idea for your Lunarians:




                  1. https://www.livescience.com/62590-moon-dust-bad-lungs-brain.html


                  2. https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2005/22apr_dontinhale



                  "The real problem is the lungs," he explains. "In some ways, lunar
                  dust resembles the silica dust on Earth that causes silicosis, a
                  serious disease." Silicosis, which used to be called "stone-grinder's
                  disease," first came to widespread public attention during the Great
                  Depression when hundreds of miners drilling the Hawk's Nest Tunnel
                  through Gauley Mountain in West Virginia died within half a decade of
                  breathing fine quartz dust kicked into the air by dry drilling--even
                  though they had been exposed for only a few months. "It was one of the
                  biggest occupational-health disasters in U.S. history," Kerschmann
                  says. This won't necessarily happen to astronauts, he assures, but
                  it's a problem we need to be aware of--and to guard against.



                  Quartz, the main cause of silicosis, is not chemically poisonous: "You
                  could eat it and not get sick," he continues. "But when quartz is
                  freshly ground into dust particles smaller than 10 microns (for
                  comparison, a human hair is 50+ microns wide) and breathed into the
                  lungs, they can embed themselves deeply into the tiny alveolar sacs
                  and ducts where oxygen and carbon dioxide gases are exchanged." There,
                  the lungs cannot clear out the dust by mucous or coughing. Moreover,
                  the immune system's white blood cells commit suicide when they try to
                  engulf the sharp-edged particles to carry them away in the
                  bloodstream. In the acute form of silicosis, the lungs can fill with
                  proteins from the blood, "and it's as if the victim slowly suffocates"
                  from a pneumonia-like condition.




                  Obviously we don't know for sure how it might happen, but before I start pulling in large quantities of moon (or martian) soil I'd like to make sure we've determined for sure that the soil won't kill me, even if the plants like it.



                  Personally, I'd just go for the hydroponics.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  I think it's worth mentioning that even if you could use lunar soil to grow plants, it may not be a good idea for your Lunarians:




                  1. https://www.livescience.com/62590-moon-dust-bad-lungs-brain.html


                  2. https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2005/22apr_dontinhale



                  "The real problem is the lungs," he explains. "In some ways, lunar
                  dust resembles the silica dust on Earth that causes silicosis, a
                  serious disease." Silicosis, which used to be called "stone-grinder's
                  disease," first came to widespread public attention during the Great
                  Depression when hundreds of miners drilling the Hawk's Nest Tunnel
                  through Gauley Mountain in West Virginia died within half a decade of
                  breathing fine quartz dust kicked into the air by dry drilling--even
                  though they had been exposed for only a few months. "It was one of the
                  biggest occupational-health disasters in U.S. history," Kerschmann
                  says. This won't necessarily happen to astronauts, he assures, but
                  it's a problem we need to be aware of--and to guard against.



                  Quartz, the main cause of silicosis, is not chemically poisonous: "You
                  could eat it and not get sick," he continues. "But when quartz is
                  freshly ground into dust particles smaller than 10 microns (for
                  comparison, a human hair is 50+ microns wide) and breathed into the
                  lungs, they can embed themselves deeply into the tiny alveolar sacs
                  and ducts where oxygen and carbon dioxide gases are exchanged." There,
                  the lungs cannot clear out the dust by mucous or coughing. Moreover,
                  the immune system's white blood cells commit suicide when they try to
                  engulf the sharp-edged particles to carry them away in the
                  bloodstream. In the acute form of silicosis, the lungs can fill with
                  proteins from the blood, "and it's as if the victim slowly suffocates"
                  from a pneumonia-like condition.




                  Obviously we don't know for sure how it might happen, but before I start pulling in large quantities of moon (or martian) soil I'd like to make sure we've determined for sure that the soil won't kill me, even if the plants like it.



                  Personally, I'd just go for the hydroponics.







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                  answered 13 hours ago









                  conmanconman

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