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What does “enim et” mean?


What does “angelorum planta agmini” mean?What does the clause “quae suae salvationis causa exstitit” mean?Does 'concrescere' take dative?What does “illos” refer to in this passage from Seneca?Does Tolle fidem, culpam dare convey the correct meaning?What do the future active participle “editurus” and the gerundive or gerund “scribendum” mean in this sentence?What does Seculum Seculi mean?Does this translation make sense?What does “Pulchre vive, vehementer somina, ardenter ama” mean?What does “Dominus providebit” mean?













1















A couple days ago, a friend sent me an excerpt from a new game, asking about a Latin phrase in it:




Contra Diabolus enim et alii Daemones




(In the game, this is the motto of a group of Catholic monster hunters—so it's meant to be Church Latin, not Classical.)



The translation seems fairly straightforward: "Against the Devil and other Demons". I would have used diabolum in the accusative, but that's a separate matter.



What confused me, though, was the word enim in the middle. I would normally translate enim as "for" or "because". So what's it doing here, right before et? Is it just an error on the translator's part, or is this a usage of enim I'm not familiar with?










share|improve this question



























    1















    A couple days ago, a friend sent me an excerpt from a new game, asking about a Latin phrase in it:




    Contra Diabolus enim et alii Daemones




    (In the game, this is the motto of a group of Catholic monster hunters—so it's meant to be Church Latin, not Classical.)



    The translation seems fairly straightforward: "Against the Devil and other Demons". I would have used diabolum in the accusative, but that's a separate matter.



    What confused me, though, was the word enim in the middle. I would normally translate enim as "for" or "because". So what's it doing here, right before et? Is it just an error on the translator's part, or is this a usage of enim I'm not familiar with?










    share|improve this question

























      1












      1








      1








      A couple days ago, a friend sent me an excerpt from a new game, asking about a Latin phrase in it:




      Contra Diabolus enim et alii Daemones




      (In the game, this is the motto of a group of Catholic monster hunters—so it's meant to be Church Latin, not Classical.)



      The translation seems fairly straightforward: "Against the Devil and other Demons". I would have used diabolum in the accusative, but that's a separate matter.



      What confused me, though, was the word enim in the middle. I would normally translate enim as "for" or "because". So what's it doing here, right before et? Is it just an error on the translator's part, or is this a usage of enim I'm not familiar with?










      share|improve this question














      A couple days ago, a friend sent me an excerpt from a new game, asking about a Latin phrase in it:




      Contra Diabolus enim et alii Daemones




      (In the game, this is the motto of a group of Catholic monster hunters—so it's meant to be Church Latin, not Classical.)



      The translation seems fairly straightforward: "Against the Devil and other Demons". I would have used diabolum in the accusative, but that's a separate matter.



      What confused me, though, was the word enim in the middle. I would normally translate enim as "for" or "because". So what's it doing here, right before et? Is it just an error on the translator's part, or is this a usage of enim I'm not familiar with?







      motto grammar-identification ecclesiastical-latin






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked 1 hour ago









      DraconisDraconis

      18.2k22474




      18.2k22474






















          2 Answers
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          active

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          2














          A quick web search shows that the phrase 'Diabolus enim et alii Daemones' (without the contra) appears to originate from the Fourth Council of the Lateran (1215). The full sentence is Diabolus enim et alii daemones a Deo quidem natura creati sunt boni, sed ipsi per se facti sunt mali, which I would translate as something like, 'For the Devil and other demons were created by God (to be) good by nature, it's true, but they became, on their own, through their own agency, wicked.'



          I suspect that whoever created the phrase for the game knew of this sentence, knew that contra means 'against', but didn't know that it requires a change of case or that enim doesn't really belong unless it's serving a connecting function; therefore, he or she just stuck contra at the beginning instead of changing to contra Diabolum et alios daemones.






          share|improve this answer


























          • Excellent! I think this is the right answer—am I correct in translating that sentence as "for the Devil and other demons, created by God, are indeed good by nature, but their deeds in and of themselves are evil"? I'm never sure when translating Church Latin if I'm missing some crucial nuance.

            – Draconis
            42 mins ago











          • @Draconis This does indeed sound like a very plausible answer. I'd read the end of the sentence as "but became evil on their own" or something similar. That is, I see ipsi facti sunt mali as "they themselves became evil".

            – Joonas Ilmavirta
            34 mins ago











          • @Draconis, I updated the answer with my attempt at a translation – admittedly, a somewhat heavy-handed one.

            – cnread
            33 mins ago





















          1














          I would indeed expect the accusatives Diabolum and alios together with contra.
          But there is a way to make the nominative work; then contra has to be read as an adverb, not a preposition (which would require accusative).
          Ignoring the enim, the whole phrase could be read as "in front [of us are] the Devil and other Demons".



          To make sense of enim, I think it modifies the entire motto, not just the second part.
          It usually comes as the second word, but if the first two words are closely connected, it can come a little later.
          This tight connection would make sense for me if contra was used as a preposition, but not so much in the adverbial use.
          I find the position a little odd but not completely wrong.



          As Leqis and Short write, enim is a corroborative particle.
          An apt English counterpart here might be "indeed".
          Therefore I would read the whole as:




          In front [of us are] indeed the Devil and other Demons




          However, this does feel a little odd.
          Enim is in a weird place (and not even necessary in my opinion), and the use of contra strikes me as weird too.
          The motto may well be a well-composed Latin motto, but it could also be a mistaken attempt at translating "Against the Devil and other Demons".






          share|improve this answer
























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            2 Answers
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            2 Answers
            2






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            active

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            2














            A quick web search shows that the phrase 'Diabolus enim et alii Daemones' (without the contra) appears to originate from the Fourth Council of the Lateran (1215). The full sentence is Diabolus enim et alii daemones a Deo quidem natura creati sunt boni, sed ipsi per se facti sunt mali, which I would translate as something like, 'For the Devil and other demons were created by God (to be) good by nature, it's true, but they became, on their own, through their own agency, wicked.'



            I suspect that whoever created the phrase for the game knew of this sentence, knew that contra means 'against', but didn't know that it requires a change of case or that enim doesn't really belong unless it's serving a connecting function; therefore, he or she just stuck contra at the beginning instead of changing to contra Diabolum et alios daemones.






            share|improve this answer


























            • Excellent! I think this is the right answer—am I correct in translating that sentence as "for the Devil and other demons, created by God, are indeed good by nature, but their deeds in and of themselves are evil"? I'm never sure when translating Church Latin if I'm missing some crucial nuance.

              – Draconis
              42 mins ago











            • @Draconis This does indeed sound like a very plausible answer. I'd read the end of the sentence as "but became evil on their own" or something similar. That is, I see ipsi facti sunt mali as "they themselves became evil".

              – Joonas Ilmavirta
              34 mins ago











            • @Draconis, I updated the answer with my attempt at a translation – admittedly, a somewhat heavy-handed one.

              – cnread
              33 mins ago


















            2














            A quick web search shows that the phrase 'Diabolus enim et alii Daemones' (without the contra) appears to originate from the Fourth Council of the Lateran (1215). The full sentence is Diabolus enim et alii daemones a Deo quidem natura creati sunt boni, sed ipsi per se facti sunt mali, which I would translate as something like, 'For the Devil and other demons were created by God (to be) good by nature, it's true, but they became, on their own, through their own agency, wicked.'



            I suspect that whoever created the phrase for the game knew of this sentence, knew that contra means 'against', but didn't know that it requires a change of case or that enim doesn't really belong unless it's serving a connecting function; therefore, he or she just stuck contra at the beginning instead of changing to contra Diabolum et alios daemones.






            share|improve this answer


























            • Excellent! I think this is the right answer—am I correct in translating that sentence as "for the Devil and other demons, created by God, are indeed good by nature, but their deeds in and of themselves are evil"? I'm never sure when translating Church Latin if I'm missing some crucial nuance.

              – Draconis
              42 mins ago











            • @Draconis This does indeed sound like a very plausible answer. I'd read the end of the sentence as "but became evil on their own" or something similar. That is, I see ipsi facti sunt mali as "they themselves became evil".

              – Joonas Ilmavirta
              34 mins ago











            • @Draconis, I updated the answer with my attempt at a translation – admittedly, a somewhat heavy-handed one.

              – cnread
              33 mins ago
















            2












            2








            2







            A quick web search shows that the phrase 'Diabolus enim et alii Daemones' (without the contra) appears to originate from the Fourth Council of the Lateran (1215). The full sentence is Diabolus enim et alii daemones a Deo quidem natura creati sunt boni, sed ipsi per se facti sunt mali, which I would translate as something like, 'For the Devil and other demons were created by God (to be) good by nature, it's true, but they became, on their own, through their own agency, wicked.'



            I suspect that whoever created the phrase for the game knew of this sentence, knew that contra means 'against', but didn't know that it requires a change of case or that enim doesn't really belong unless it's serving a connecting function; therefore, he or she just stuck contra at the beginning instead of changing to contra Diabolum et alios daemones.






            share|improve this answer















            A quick web search shows that the phrase 'Diabolus enim et alii Daemones' (without the contra) appears to originate from the Fourth Council of the Lateran (1215). The full sentence is Diabolus enim et alii daemones a Deo quidem natura creati sunt boni, sed ipsi per se facti sunt mali, which I would translate as something like, 'For the Devil and other demons were created by God (to be) good by nature, it's true, but they became, on their own, through their own agency, wicked.'



            I suspect that whoever created the phrase for the game knew of this sentence, knew that contra means 'against', but didn't know that it requires a change of case or that enim doesn't really belong unless it's serving a connecting function; therefore, he or she just stuck contra at the beginning instead of changing to contra Diabolum et alios daemones.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 33 mins ago

























            answered 47 mins ago









            cnreadcnread

            9,01211124




            9,01211124













            • Excellent! I think this is the right answer—am I correct in translating that sentence as "for the Devil and other demons, created by God, are indeed good by nature, but their deeds in and of themselves are evil"? I'm never sure when translating Church Latin if I'm missing some crucial nuance.

              – Draconis
              42 mins ago











            • @Draconis This does indeed sound like a very plausible answer. I'd read the end of the sentence as "but became evil on their own" or something similar. That is, I see ipsi facti sunt mali as "they themselves became evil".

              – Joonas Ilmavirta
              34 mins ago











            • @Draconis, I updated the answer with my attempt at a translation – admittedly, a somewhat heavy-handed one.

              – cnread
              33 mins ago





















            • Excellent! I think this is the right answer—am I correct in translating that sentence as "for the Devil and other demons, created by God, are indeed good by nature, but their deeds in and of themselves are evil"? I'm never sure when translating Church Latin if I'm missing some crucial nuance.

              – Draconis
              42 mins ago











            • @Draconis This does indeed sound like a very plausible answer. I'd read the end of the sentence as "but became evil on their own" or something similar. That is, I see ipsi facti sunt mali as "they themselves became evil".

              – Joonas Ilmavirta
              34 mins ago











            • @Draconis, I updated the answer with my attempt at a translation – admittedly, a somewhat heavy-handed one.

              – cnread
              33 mins ago



















            Excellent! I think this is the right answer—am I correct in translating that sentence as "for the Devil and other demons, created by God, are indeed good by nature, but their deeds in and of themselves are evil"? I'm never sure when translating Church Latin if I'm missing some crucial nuance.

            – Draconis
            42 mins ago





            Excellent! I think this is the right answer—am I correct in translating that sentence as "for the Devil and other demons, created by God, are indeed good by nature, but their deeds in and of themselves are evil"? I'm never sure when translating Church Latin if I'm missing some crucial nuance.

            – Draconis
            42 mins ago













            @Draconis This does indeed sound like a very plausible answer. I'd read the end of the sentence as "but became evil on their own" or something similar. That is, I see ipsi facti sunt mali as "they themselves became evil".

            – Joonas Ilmavirta
            34 mins ago





            @Draconis This does indeed sound like a very plausible answer. I'd read the end of the sentence as "but became evil on their own" or something similar. That is, I see ipsi facti sunt mali as "they themselves became evil".

            – Joonas Ilmavirta
            34 mins ago













            @Draconis, I updated the answer with my attempt at a translation – admittedly, a somewhat heavy-handed one.

            – cnread
            33 mins ago







            @Draconis, I updated the answer with my attempt at a translation – admittedly, a somewhat heavy-handed one.

            – cnread
            33 mins ago













            1














            I would indeed expect the accusatives Diabolum and alios together with contra.
            But there is a way to make the nominative work; then contra has to be read as an adverb, not a preposition (which would require accusative).
            Ignoring the enim, the whole phrase could be read as "in front [of us are] the Devil and other Demons".



            To make sense of enim, I think it modifies the entire motto, not just the second part.
            It usually comes as the second word, but if the first two words are closely connected, it can come a little later.
            This tight connection would make sense for me if contra was used as a preposition, but not so much in the adverbial use.
            I find the position a little odd but not completely wrong.



            As Leqis and Short write, enim is a corroborative particle.
            An apt English counterpart here might be "indeed".
            Therefore I would read the whole as:




            In front [of us are] indeed the Devil and other Demons




            However, this does feel a little odd.
            Enim is in a weird place (and not even necessary in my opinion), and the use of contra strikes me as weird too.
            The motto may well be a well-composed Latin motto, but it could also be a mistaken attempt at translating "Against the Devil and other Demons".






            share|improve this answer




























              1














              I would indeed expect the accusatives Diabolum and alios together with contra.
              But there is a way to make the nominative work; then contra has to be read as an adverb, not a preposition (which would require accusative).
              Ignoring the enim, the whole phrase could be read as "in front [of us are] the Devil and other Demons".



              To make sense of enim, I think it modifies the entire motto, not just the second part.
              It usually comes as the second word, but if the first two words are closely connected, it can come a little later.
              This tight connection would make sense for me if contra was used as a preposition, but not so much in the adverbial use.
              I find the position a little odd but not completely wrong.



              As Leqis and Short write, enim is a corroborative particle.
              An apt English counterpart here might be "indeed".
              Therefore I would read the whole as:




              In front [of us are] indeed the Devil and other Demons




              However, this does feel a little odd.
              Enim is in a weird place (and not even necessary in my opinion), and the use of contra strikes me as weird too.
              The motto may well be a well-composed Latin motto, but it could also be a mistaken attempt at translating "Against the Devil and other Demons".






              share|improve this answer


























                1












                1








                1







                I would indeed expect the accusatives Diabolum and alios together with contra.
                But there is a way to make the nominative work; then contra has to be read as an adverb, not a preposition (which would require accusative).
                Ignoring the enim, the whole phrase could be read as "in front [of us are] the Devil and other Demons".



                To make sense of enim, I think it modifies the entire motto, not just the second part.
                It usually comes as the second word, but if the first two words are closely connected, it can come a little later.
                This tight connection would make sense for me if contra was used as a preposition, but not so much in the adverbial use.
                I find the position a little odd but not completely wrong.



                As Leqis and Short write, enim is a corroborative particle.
                An apt English counterpart here might be "indeed".
                Therefore I would read the whole as:




                In front [of us are] indeed the Devil and other Demons




                However, this does feel a little odd.
                Enim is in a weird place (and not even necessary in my opinion), and the use of contra strikes me as weird too.
                The motto may well be a well-composed Latin motto, but it could also be a mistaken attempt at translating "Against the Devil and other Demons".






                share|improve this answer













                I would indeed expect the accusatives Diabolum and alios together with contra.
                But there is a way to make the nominative work; then contra has to be read as an adverb, not a preposition (which would require accusative).
                Ignoring the enim, the whole phrase could be read as "in front [of us are] the Devil and other Demons".



                To make sense of enim, I think it modifies the entire motto, not just the second part.
                It usually comes as the second word, but if the first two words are closely connected, it can come a little later.
                This tight connection would make sense for me if contra was used as a preposition, but not so much in the adverbial use.
                I find the position a little odd but not completely wrong.



                As Leqis and Short write, enim is a corroborative particle.
                An apt English counterpart here might be "indeed".
                Therefore I would read the whole as:




                In front [of us are] indeed the Devil and other Demons




                However, this does feel a little odd.
                Enim is in a weird place (and not even necessary in my opinion), and the use of contra strikes me as weird too.
                The motto may well be a well-composed Latin motto, but it could also be a mistaken attempt at translating "Against the Devil and other Demons".







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 53 mins ago









                Joonas IlmavirtaJoonas Ilmavirta

                49k1271287




                49k1271287






























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